Oxaloacetate

Here is the deal with oxaloacetate, it is one compound needed for of the citric acid cycle. Now the way it has been presented to us, it is currently unpublished, we do not have much data on effectiveness and safety but apparently you can buy it as a supplement.
It may or may not work unless there are other deficiencies in the TCA cycle that prevents functioning that generates energy, and unless there are issues in other body systems.
I have had metabolomic testing about 5 or 6 years ago and one of the problem i seemed to have was at the succinate level, but of course this is not a clinical test, it was a research test and of course there were no recommendations made to me.

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I don't understand this. If most of our food energy goes through the citric acid cycle I would guess that we make use of about 500 gram of oxaloacetate molecules a day. Yes, part of the molecule gets recycled but if there was a block to making oxaloacetate that needed topping up with oxaloacetate then it seems to me you would need tens if not hundreds of grams to make a difference. 500 milligrams is not going to make any difference at all. This is not like a vitamin or coenzyme, it is energy substrate, which is used in bulk.

I strongly suspect this is pseudoscience like the rest of the stuff being posted from this conference.
 
Moved post

This subject below is the one that I saw posted about elsewhere.

I wasn’t aware of PwME supplementing with Oxaloacetate. PwME are now discussing doing so based on this information.

As reported in the tweets Dr. Kaufman reported no adverse effects.

Some have expressed concern that supplementation could cause kidney stones, and I have heard 2nd or 3rd hand that there’s been one report of that occurring from a PwME.

Searching online I’ve read that other possible side effects could be insomnia or gastrointestinal upset.

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For those with visual issues, the Bodypolitic tweets in vsou's post are
#135, as above in the first post of the thread

#136
80% of participants show improvement. This is remarkable, he says. Dr Kaufman said patients speak of improvement in overall wellbeing and some describe brain fog improvement. No significant adverse effects. 2 patients had reflux, resolved by taking with food.

#137
Oxaloacetate is a human energy metabolite. Fatigue continues to improve over time and with increasing dosage. Oxaloacetate shown to be safe at levels 1000 mg BID in mutiple clinical trials for other groups (ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's).
Dr Kaufman's goal: funding for RCT for this.
 
I'm going to assume that the participants had all their metabolites tested, including Oxaloacetate before taking the supplement?

I had other metabolites tested on my OAT, and there are 3 others at the beginning of the citric acid cycle that were below normal range.
 
Mij said:
I'm going to assume that the participants had all their metabolites tested, including Oxaloacetate before taking the supplement?

I had other metabolites tested on my OAT, and there are 3 others at the beginning of the citric acid cycle that were below normal range.
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May I ask where you can get that tested?
 
Oxaloacetate pills are hard to find, I have only seen Benagene brand available and it gets expensive really quickly as someone pointed out. I had more or less the same results or actually better just by consuming spinach (aka the Popeye protocol). Spinach contains oxalic acid or oxalate, so not exactly the same compound, but you get around 1000 mg oxalic acid in 100 gram spinach, which costs a couple of dollars or less.
 
Chestnut tree said:
Was that through a dr or can you do this yourself?
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The test panels were ordered by my functional/integrative doctor 20 years ago. He worked at a biomedical clinic at the time that offered these tests. I'm not sure if patients were able to order the test panel on their own but I just looked at their website and they are no longer offering these test and now offering "body chemical balancing" for thyroid and adrenals and "gut rehab" :emoji_rolling_eyes: The biochemist who owns the clinic does the consultations.

I'm sorry, but these tests sound like a business for people who are desperate.
 
Trish said:
Oxaloacetate is not the same as oxalate in spinach
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I reread some of what I found out 1,5 years ago regarding this, and Trish is right, this is from a professor in metabolism, and MD, quote

“I'm not aware of any enzyme or pathway that produces oxalate from oxaloacetate. Moreover, oxaloacetate is produced readily in our metabolism; it is very unlikely that eating will
significantly change the overall level.”

So this doesn’t give confidence that oxaloacetate can help, neither from what Jonathan Edwards say.

Regarding the spinach smoothies, that is much more dangerous for us than oxaloacetate, according to the prof. above. Kidney stones and kidney failure are some of the possibilities. But then again, the Bohne drinkable/spinach smoothie is four times a day. So no wonder it is warned against.
 
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