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Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

Discussion in 'Long Covid news' started by lycaena, May 5, 2020.

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Page 17 of 121
  1. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not sure... but I have been thinking that there must be some hoping to become beknighted.
     
    chrisb, Jan 27, 2021
    #321
    MEMarge, alktipping, JemPD and 2 others like this.
  2. Saz94

    Saz94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :emoji_clap::emoji_clap::emoji_clap::emoji_clap::emoji_clap:

    *Mic drop*
     
    Saz94, Jan 27, 2021
    #322
    TiredSam, sebaaa, MEMarge and 19 others like this.
  3. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It has occurred to me that there is a way of potentially explaining PGs recovery or remission-only time will tell which it is. Whether or not it is the correct interpretation is an entirely different issue.
    .
    The relapsing/remitting form of the condition can present very sudden switches. The physical changes can occur before the psychological awareness kicks in. Sometimes it can catch you unaware. It could be that his decision to get out of bed and exercise himself to health was prompted by his body suddenly being able to undertake the activity necessary. The "decision" was just the ex post facto gloss.

    The reversal of states may be equally sudden, and then one tends to deny the change for as long as possible.
     
    chrisb, Jan 27, 2021
    #323
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  4. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It certainly discounts the deconditioning theory and the need for post viral people to go from sedentary to active through graded exercise as their bodies have become "sensitive"
     
    ukxmrv, Jan 27, 2021
    #324
    Helene, MEMarge, alktipping and 7 others like this.
  5. Kitty

    Kitty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This has happened to me. Each time I went into remission I'd experienced a growing conviction that I could start doing things. I'd started the recovery process, and then become aware of it. And on a subjective level it can feel – quite strongly in some moments – as if it's a change of attitude.

    The difference was that (a) I'm not a doctor, (b) I understood what was happening anyway, and (c) I didn't try to impose it on anyone else or ascribe it to anything I'd done. I just recovered.

    A similar thing can even happen after a bad cold; as soon as the symptoms start fading, you wonder if you couldn't have tried a bit harder to get on with some work, rather than sitting in a miserable heap and grumbling. Our memory of pain and discomfort is famously short-lived.
     
    Kitty, Jan 27, 2021
    #325
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  6. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Kalliope, Jan 27, 2021
    #326
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  7. Joan Crawford

    Joan Crawford Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My comment has been posted on the blog :) Yay
     
    Joan Crawford, Jan 27, 2021
    #327
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  8. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I get the occasional very short-lived cold (a day or a day and a half and then it's gone). During those times I feel better and can think better. The same effect has been noted on thyroid forums where many of the members have one or more autoimmune diseases.
     
    Arnie Pye, Jan 27, 2021
    #328
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  9. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is that a bit 'no true Scotsman'? - this 'subculture' seems pretty large.

    Garner's professional and public role adds a whole extra layer of complexity, but at this point my instinct is to be sympathetic to someone who has been through a bizarre experience. He seems to have taken an openly personal and emotional response through his experience, and that makes it pretty difficult to talk about his broader intellectual capacity imo. Lots of people can have odd views about their own lives but then do solid work in their professional lives.

    Also, just pragmatically, I feel as if those unaware of the history of things like Recovery Norge will miss a lot of the problems with Garner's new blog. It could be that Garner doesn't entirely understand it (given that he's previously written of the problems of 'institutionalised prejudice' around ME/CFS, a failure to have dug into that would be bad, though in an unsurprising way). I'm not sure how harsh criticism of Garner's blog is likely to seem to his colleagues, who will largely also not be aware of this history.
     
    Esther12, Jan 27, 2021
    #329
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  10. Suffolkres

    Suffolkres Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://cidg.cochrane.org/news/co-o...rner-discusses-his-experience-having-covid-19

    Well Covid unwell or no, Professor Garner has been making ample use of his experiences from quite early on despite his ''severity' and unwellness'.........

    Paul’s core blogs
    .......and he has been rather putting himself out and about a bit it would appear.
    He does seem to like the attention. He obviously is skilled in getting a message out there....
    I wonder how many of these entries were commissioned and paid, how many were freely volunteered?





    Interviews and articles related to Paul’s Covid-19 experience .......


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2021
    Suffolkres, Jan 27, 2021
    #330
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  11. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    A lot of those probably had no direct input from Garner himself.
     
    Trish, Jan 27, 2021
    #331
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  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Initially Grenada controlled cases with a lockdown. After an exponential increase in cases in the first half of December 2020, the country applied a partial lockdown to bring it under control again. Arrivals from the UK are currently banned. I'm not saying that Garner caused the Grenada outbreak of course, but people who travelled there at that time certainly did. Grenada is a small country with limited medical infrastructure and an economy that was struggling even before Covid-19.

    Screen Shot 2021-01-28 at 7.06.01 AM.png
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/grenada/

    An evidence based medicine and infectious disease specialist (who has no excuse of ignorance) who goes on an international holiday to a distant vulnerable country during a global pandemic of a highly transmissible disease that causes long term harm, and posts about his holiday on social media, actively encouraging others to also travel, is likely to have particular characteristics.

    Those characteristics seem consistent with such a person (who also has a close family member with ME/CFS and the benefit of personal advice from sensible experts like Charles Shepherd) suggesting that he overcame a post-viral fatigue syndrome by moral fortitude.

    I agree, @Esther12, that the characteristics don't necessarily include a lack of intrinsic intelligence. Smart people can show a remarkable ability to dismiss both facts and impacts on others when pursuing admiration and a sense of superiority.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Hutan, Jan 27, 2021
    #332
    TiredSam, Trish, lycaena and 29 others like this.
  13. Leila

    Leila Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The way we think PG could have been "brainwashed" by LP (like) approaches to think ME was psychological, he might actually think the ME community had brainwashed him into believing ME, or rather his pvfs, was physical?

    Not an excuse but it would explain his harsh tone.

    I think no matter what your profession is, when something deeply traumatic is happening to you the mind is human first and tries to make sense of it and regain control/sovereignty.
     
    Leila, Jan 27, 2021
    #333
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  14. Suffolkres

    Suffolkres Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I understand but it does demonstrate his influence and skill in getting a message out.
     
    Suffolkres, Jan 27, 2021
    #334
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  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Which is clearly not the case for someone who splurges their naive speculations in the BMJ.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Jan 27, 2021
    #335
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  16. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There aren't that many doctors, even amongst the BPS crowd, who quote the dotty ideas of a Norwegian PhD student in a BMJ piece. The subculture extends quite a way but that is by the bye.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2021
    Jonathan Edwards, Jan 27, 2021
    #336
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  17. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It seems to me that certain medical people have not woken up to the fact that the habit of doctors dissing patients while communicating in what they think is their professional private space is no longer tolerable in the internet age. It was never justifiable but at least nobody much noticed before.

    Garner is engaging in the sort of jokey self-congratulatory story that people used to relate at medical dinner parties. You do not translate that to the e-pages of a medical journal.

    I am sorry but I think his behaviour is completely inexcusable. Yes, personal catastrophes can be hard to handle, I have had quite a few, but coming to terms with them has never involved putting other people's lives in jeopardy.
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Jan 27, 2021
    #337
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  18. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hoopoe, Jan 27, 2021
    #338
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  19. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Amw66, Jan 27, 2021
    #339
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  20. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    It's not a good look, is it.
     
    Sean, Jan 28, 2021
    #340
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