University College of Osteopathy - Raymond Perrin Nov 2019 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME & Fibromyalgia Dates: 23 - 24 November 2019 Course leader: Dr Raymond Perrin Cost: £256 - £320 " The evidence to support the physical diagnostic criteria A summary of the findings of the clinical trials into the treatment at the Universities of Salford and Manchester together with results of an independent controlled clinical study in Hammersmith Hospital London plus a detailed review of the findings from the diagnostic study published recently in the BMJ Open (Hives L et al. Nov 2017)". The paper in the BMJ https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/7/11/e017521.full.pdf is solely about diagnosis " Objective To assess five physical signs to see whether they can assist in the screening of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME)" https://www.uco.ac.uk/courses/chronic-fatigue-syndromeme-fibromyalgia-0 As far as I know there have not been any clinical trials into the treatment (or at least nothing published). ? Anyone know about these trials mentioned?
Merged thread "On completion of this two day course delegates are qualified to register as a licenced 'Perrin Technique' practitioner at a discounted price of £20 per month or £200 for the first year of registration (reverting to the regular price of £25 per month or £250 per year there after). This gives you the right to list the Perrin Technique on your own website and will list you as a licenced practitioner on the Perrin Technique website." ?!
He's still only citing his small study of his diagnostic technique as evidence, yet he's saying the treatment is evidence based.
One for @PhysiosforME to be aware of? Maybe you could ask him some questions about his claims for evidence for his treatment - see @Trish post above
We've done some investigation and as @Trish higlighted above, the only published information we can find relates to the diagnostic study. And his book. We will try and make contact with him and see if we can find out any more. We have however had some positive feedback from people saying it has helped so would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried it to find out more about their experiences.
As I'm sure you are well aware, any quack therapy will have its devotees, some of whom will make it their mission to tell the world how much the therapy helped, so I'd take those stories with a large pinch of salt. Unless Perrin can provide you with a published clinical trial with objective outcome measures and long term follow up with a decent sized cohort, he has no business claiming his treatment works. Sorry, I'm sure you know all that already - just letting off steam!
Ive tried it not long after I was diagnosed. i get swollen glands as part of flare ups so thought it possibly would be relevant to me. But I couldn’t tolerate the massage it made me sore.
I have a copy of his book; would suggest that, if you haven't already, you read it particularly regarding his 'theory' of what causes ME which has, as far as I know, no research/evidence to support it. As Trish said, like the LP, it has its 'followers', but similarly it is becoming a bit of a pyramid scheme and misleading patients into believing it is based on scientific research based on one small and badly designed RCT on diagnosis of patients with ME (if you have read the research, from memory, they only had HC and pwME to diagnose, so there was a 50/50 chance of 'getting it right').
have found a copy of Raymond Perrins Thesis. In it he mentions a number of 'trials' but I can't find any literature (apart from his) about them. his thesis https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2723/be174b00626663577f4526f8ff91851262cd.pdf eta:it is very long, but there are a lot of photos in it.
now advertising further 'event' for May 2020 https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/chro...bromyalgia-16-17-may-2020-tickets-73795890495 how is this allowed to go on and on?
Just found this charity called FORME Fund for Osteopathic Research into M.E. which seems to be mainly set up to fund Raymond Perrins 'research'. http://www.forme-cfs.org.uk/latest-research/ there is someone who has a son with ME who is doing regular fundraising for them. https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fu...ndraiserPage?userUrl=NIGELBROOKWELL&pageUrl=4 I don't get it. Is he not aware of all the other real research going on(?)
Merged thread Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19, 2020, Perrin et al Free full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7320866 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987720318260?via=ihub Medical Hypotheses Volume 144, November 2020, 110055 Letter to Editors Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19 RayPerrin LisaRiste MarkHann The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK Author links open overlay panelAndreasWalther The University of Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland Author links open overlay panelAnniceMukherjee The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK Author links open overlay panelAdrianHeald The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK Department of Endocrinology and Diabetes, Salford Royal Hospital, Salford, UK Received 17 June 2020, Accepted 26 June 2020, Available online 27 June 2020. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2020.110055
A lot of it is an info-mercial by Perrin et al for the Perrin technique as a treatment for post-Covid symptoms - what a surprise...
So on the basis of treating one patient over a few weeks starting a month after infection and who improved on some subjective measures and probably would have improved anyway, he manages to get this advertisement published by medical hypotheses journal. The alt med forces are circling around post covid already, preparing to cash in.
I saw this last night. I find the whole thing quite strange. It is like an advertisement, but it's in an obscure journal that very few potential patients will ever see. A couple of things stood out: (i) There is no such place as 'Manchester University'. It's the University of Manchester. (ii) More importantly, Raymond Perrin does not, as far as I'm aware, hold an appointment at the University of Manchester, so his affiliation is either wrong or fraudulent. (iii) Why so many co-authors on what is essentially an annecdote from his clinic? (iv) There is no statement that the patient actually tested positive for Covid19. EDIT: (v) If he was Covid-positive, why was he being treated in a private clinic* in May? * I assume this man was treated at one of Perrin's clinics in North Manchester. Bizzare.
Very old video has been posted on Youtube by a Perrin Technique practitioner. (https://www.robinkiashek.co.uk/ Robin is London Osteopath and Naturopath with clinics in Central London, Soho and North London, registered with both The General Osteopathic Council and The British Naturopathic Association) Code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lPZ9d0rsfM
I've tried it on myself in 2015/16 with the steps that are described in the book using a dry brush (the ones on a stick). It didnt do anything for me but, of course, it could be I did it all wrong. I must say, his explanations did make sense but dont they all until they are never backed up by studies.
The owner of this channel has just copied a video that was already on YouTube, and which I've watched before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZK2MtkhcHk
Merged thread I know there is a thread on the Perrin technique but, I have just picked up on this new course of his. https://cpd.uco.ac.uk/the-lymphatic...y-diagnosis-and-management-23-24-october-2021 is any of this backed up by evidence? (apart from his one 'diagnosis of CFS' 'RCT') @PhysiosforME @Russell Fleming @Jonathan Edwards