Perrin Technique

Sly Saint

Sly Saint

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
University College of Osteopathy - Raymond Perrin Nov 2019

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME & Fibromyalgia

Dates: 23 - 24 November 2019
Course leader: Dr Raymond Perrin
Cost: £256 - £320

About the course
Dr Perrin will detail the scientific evidence based on the diagnosis and treatment of these complex disorders and teach the techniques and the management of CFS/ME. The course is suitable for osteopaths, physiotherapists and chiropractors with some experience in basic cranial techniques. The planned workshop will have 4 parts:

1). Applied anatomy and pathophysiology of the neurolymphatic and autonomic nervous system
  • The applied anatomy and physiology of the neurolymphatic system plus the pathogenesis of CFS/ME from a biomechanical perspective. The neuroscience underlying the physical symptoms and diagnostic signs will be explained.
2). The evidence to support the physical diagnostic criteria
  • A summary of the findings of the clinical trials into the treatment at the Universities of Salford and Manchester together with results of an independent controlled clinical study in Hammersmith Hospital London plus a detailed review of the findings from the diagnostic study published recently in the BMJ Open (Hives L et al. Nov 2017)
3). Practical session
  • Dr Perrin will explain the consultation process and practically demonstrate the physical signs that clinicians can use in practice as an aid to the diagnostic process. Also the Perrin Technique treatment protocol will be taught with plenty of hands on participation especially on the second day of the workshop.
4). Other methods of treating CFS/ME and Fibromyalgia will be discussed and the integrative multidiscipline approach will be shown.
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"
The evidence to support the physical diagnostic criteria

A summary of the findings of the clinical trials into the treatment at the Universities of Salford and Manchester together with results of an independent controlled clinical study in Hammersmith Hospital London plus a detailed review of the findings from the diagnostic study published recently in the BMJ Open (Hives L et al. Nov 2017)".


The paper in the BMJ https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/7/11/e017521.full.pdf
is solely about diagnosis
"
Objective To assess five physical signs to see whether
they can assist in the screening of patients with chronic
fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME)"

https://www.uco.ac.uk/courses/chronic-fatigue-syndromeme-fibromyalgia-0

As far as I know there have not been any clinical trials into the treatment (or at least nothing published). ? Anyone know about these trials mentioned?
 
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"On completion of this two day course delegates are qualified to register as a licenced 'Perrin Technique' practitioner at a discounted price of £20 per month or £200 for the first year of registration (reverting to the regular price of £25 per month or £250 per year there after). This gives you the right to list the Perrin Technique on your own website and will list you as a licenced practitioner on the Perrin Technique website."

?!
 
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We've done some investigation and as @Trish higlighted above, the only published information we can find relates to the diagnostic study. And his book. We will try and make contact with him and see if we can find out any more.

We have however had some positive feedback from people saying it has helped so would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried it to find out more about their experiences.
 
PhysiosforME said:
We've done some investigation and as @Trish higlighted above, the only published information we can find relates to the diagnostic study. And his book. We will try and make contact with him and see if we can find out any more.

We have however had some positive feedback from people saying it has helped so would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried it to find out more about their experiences.
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As I'm sure you are well aware, any quack therapy will have its devotees, some of whom will make it their mission to tell the world how much the therapy helped, so I'd take those stories with a large pinch of salt. Unless Perrin can provide you with a published clinical trial with objective outcome measures and long term follow up with a decent sized cohort, he has no business claiming his treatment works.

Sorry, I'm sure you know all that already - just letting off steam!
 
PhysiosforME said:
We've done some investigation and as @Trish higlighted above, the only published information we can find relates to the diagnostic study. And his book. We will try and make contact with him and see if we can find out any more.

We have however had some positive feedback from people saying it has helped so would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried it to find out more about their experiences.
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I have a copy of his book; would suggest that, if you haven't already, you read it particularly regarding his 'theory' of what causes ME which has, as far as I know, no research/evidence to support it.

As Trish said, like the LP, it has its 'followers', but similarly it is becoming a bit of a pyramid scheme and misleading patients into believing it is based on scientific research based on one small and badly designed RCT on diagnosis of patients with ME (if you have read the research, from memory, they only had HC and pwME to diagnose, so there was a 50/50 chance of 'getting it right').
 
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Just found this charity called FORME
Fund for Osteopathic Research into M.E.

which seems to be mainly set up to fund Raymond Perrins 'research'.

http://www.forme-cfs.org.uk/latest-research/

there is someone who has a son with ME
Since my son fell ill to this cruel condition in 2016, I've done some pretty daft stuff (google me) in a bid to raise money for M.E. research and to raise awareness of the condition amongst the general population.
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who is doing regular fundraising for them.
https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fu...ndraiserPage?userUrl=NIGELBROOKWELL&pageUrl=4

I don't get it. Is he not aware of all the other real research going on(?)
 
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Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19, 2020, Perrin et al

Free full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7320866

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987720318260?via=ihub

Medical Hypotheses
Volume 144, November 2020, 110055

Letter to Editors
Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19
RayPerrin
LisaRiste
MarkHann
The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
Author links open overlay panelAndreasWalther
The University of Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland
Author links open overlay panelAnniceMukherjee
The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
Author links open overlay panelAdrianHeald
The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
Department of Endocrinology and Diabetes, Salford Royal Hospital, Salford, UK
Received 17 June 2020, Accepted 26 June 2020, Available online 27 June 2020.


https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2020.110055
 
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We are writing to highlight the potential for a post-viral syndrome to manifest following COVID-19 infection as previously reported following Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) infection, also a coronavirus [1]. After the acute SARS episode some patients, many of whom were healthcare workers went on to develop a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME) – like illness which nearly 20 months on prevented them returning to work [2]. We propose that once an acute COVID-19 infection has been overcome, a subgroup of remitted patients are likely to experience long-term adverse effects resembling CFS/ME symptomatology such as persistent fatigue, diffuse myalgia, depressive symptoms, and non-restorative sleep.
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A lot of it is an info-mercial by Perrin et al for the Perrin technique as a treatment for post-Covid symptoms - what a surprise...
 
So on the basis of treating one patient over a few weeks starting a month after infection and who improved on some subjective measures and probably would have improved anyway, he manages to get this advertisement published by medical hypotheses journal.
The alt med forces are circling around post covid already, preparing to cash in.
 
Dolphin said:
Merged thread

Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19, 2020, Perrin et al

Free full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7320866

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987720318260?via=ihub

Medical Hypotheses
Volume 144, November 2020, 110055

Letter to Editors
Into the looking glass: Post-viral syndrome post COVID-19
RayPerrin
LisaRiste
MarkHann
The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
Author links open overlay panelAndreasWalther
The University of Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland
Author links open overlay panelAnniceMukherjee
The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
Author links open overlay panelAdrianHeald
The School of Medicine and Manchester Academic Health Sciences Centre, Manchester University, UK
Department of Endocrinology and Diabetes, Salford Royal Hospital, Salford, UK
Received 17 June 2020, Accepted 26 June 2020, Available online 27 June 2020.


https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2020.110055
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I saw this last night. I find the whole thing quite strange. It is like an advertisement, but it's in an obscure journal that very few potential patients will ever see. A couple of things stood out:

(i) There is no such place as 'Manchester University'. It's the University of Manchester.
(ii) More importantly, Raymond Perrin does not, as far as I'm aware, hold an appointment at the University of Manchester, so his affiliation is either wrong or fraudulent.
(iii) Why so many co-authors on what is essentially an annecdote from his clinic?
(iv) There is no statement that the patient actually tested positive for Covid19.

EDIT:
(v) If he was Covid-positive, why was he being treated in a private clinic* in May?

* I assume this man was treated at one of Perrin's clinics in North Manchester.

Bizzare.
 
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Very old video has been posted on Youtube by a Perrin Technique practitioner.

(https://www.robinkiashek.co.uk/ Robin is London Osteopath and Naturopath with clinics in Central London, Soho and North London, registered with both The General Osteopathic Council and The British Naturopathic Association)

Code: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lPZ9d0rsfM
 
I've tried it on myself in 2015/16 with the steps that are described in the book using a dry brush (the ones on a stick).

It didnt do anything for me but, of course, it could be I did it all wrong.

I must say, his explanations did make sense but dont they all until they are never backed up by studies.
 
Sly Saint said:
Very old video has been posted on Youtube by a Perrin Technique practitioner.

(https://www.robinkiashek.co.uk/ Robin is London Osteopath and Naturopath with clinics in Central London, Soho and North London, registered with both The General Osteopathic Council and The British Naturopathic Association)

Code: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lPZ9d0rsfM
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The owner of this channel has just copied a video that was already on YouTube, and which I've watched before:
 
Merged thread
I know there is a thread on the Perrin technique but, I have just picked up on this new course of his.

Course description
This course aims to improve the practitioners’ knowledge of the immune system and to teach enhanced palpatory skills in assessing the health of the patient’s lymphatic system. You will learn different strategies to aid lymphatic drainage in conjunction with other forms of osteopathic techniques. The course begins with a history of the lymphatic system in medicine and osteopathy. It also covers relevant anatomy, pathology and diagnosis of the lymphatic system and its disorders. Manual techniques will be demonstrated and practised.
  • The anatomy of the lymphatic system from the smallest lymphatic vessel to the cisterna chyli and the thoracic duct.
  • The immune system – the difference between B and T cells, the acute and chronic immune response and the significance of the relationship between the lymphatic system and the immune system.
  • The physiology of the lymphatics system.
  • The pathology of the lymphatics system including examination in the diagnosis of lymphatic disease.
  • The neuro-lymphatic (glymphatic system) and its disorders – including the pathogenesis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME) and fibromyalgia, physical symptoms and diagnostic signs.
  • Management of lymphatic disorders including contra-indications and cautions to treatment.
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Learning Outcomes
  • Understand the pathogenesis of lymphatic disorders from a biomechanical perspective.
  • Learn how to examine a patient for the early physical symptoms and diagnostic signs for possible lymphadenopathies and learn the differences between healthy and non-healthy systems including splenomegaly, Hodgkin’s and fibromyalgia.
  • Learn how to manage patients focussing on the lymphatics plus specific disorders such as lymphangitis, lymphoedema and other forms of lymphadenopathy.
  • Gain an understanding of how to integrate the evidence-based medicine discussed in the workshop into better patient care in all realms of clinical practice.
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https://cpd.uco.ac.uk/the-lymphatic...y-diagnosis-and-management-23-24-october-2021

is any of this backed up by evidence? (apart from his one 'diagnosis of CFS' 'RCT')

@PhysiosforME
@Russell Fleming
@Jonathan Edwards
 
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