Petition: S4ME 2023 - Cochrane: Withdraw the harmful 2019 Exercise therapy for CFS review

Discussion in 'Petitions' started by Hutan, Sep 4, 2023.

  1. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    When do we start submitting complaints about Cochrane’s Complaints Team’s failure of process?
     
    Arvo, Binkie4, SNT Gatchaman and 10 others like this.
  2. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Cochrane owes us so great a dept already, that it hardly seems worth mentioning it, but nonetheless mention it I shall.

    What could possibly excuse such institutional impoliteness, as a failure to send a ‘thank you for your complaint. We will endeavour to respond in full within the next two weeks’ or some such?
    A management team, an admin staff and still, no.

    Really sulking it up hard over there aren’t they?
    What professional standards?
    Where?
    Which way did they go?
     
    MEMarge, Binkie4, Sean and 5 others like this.
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    :)
     
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  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    We will check with them whether they have received the email and it hasn't gone to their spam folder!
     
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  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Six weeks on from “in the next few weeks”, six weeks til Christmas, chances of “the next few weeks” turning out to be in 2023 are looking slim to impossible.
     
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  6. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Maybe they’ve marked S4ME as spam and the block is on.
     
  7. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  8. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    We have had confirmation that our complaint has been received by Cochrane.
     
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  9. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Good.
     
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  10. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    MEMarge, Hutan, Ash and 7 others like this.
  11. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    MEMarge, Ash, alktipping and 9 others like this.
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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  13. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  14. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Latest update from the team running the petition:

    News from Cochrane, or rather from the Independent Advisory Group

    NOV 12, 2023 —

    Silence has been broken after a hiatus of more than two years in the promised monthly updates from Hilda Bastian, leader of the Independent Advisory Group (IAG) for the process to develop a review to replace the 2019 Larun et al Review.

    You can read the IAG November 2023 update here.
    It includes a new way of making public comments moderated by Hilda Bastian - link here.

    Assessing progress against the requests we made in August 2023:

    1. The immediate withdrawal or retraction of the 2019 Cochrane review 'Exercise therapy for chronic fatigue syndrome’ by Larun et al. and all earlier versions.

    There is no indication that this will happen. Instead, the IAG is drafting a note to be added to the review to reduce 'misinterpretation' and better 'reflect critical nuance and limitations in its conclusions'.

    We are concerned that this description of the problem misses the point that the review is fundamentally flawed. The problem is not just 'nuances' or with readers misinterpreting what the 2019 review says. The authors failed to understand the substantial bias created by the research methodology of the included studies. The most fundamental flaw that makes the review's conclusions unsound is that small improvements in self-reported assessments of symptoms in unblinded trials of treatments that specifically aim to make people downplay their symptoms are not evidence of the treatment working.

    Also describing the problem with the review as being the 'limited applicability' of its conclusions misses the point that when conclusions are not based on good evidence they should not be applied to any patients. Restricting the use of the review to a particular subset of people does not fix the problem.

    A note that says anything less clear than "This review is fundamentally flawed. Do not use it for clinical guidance" in large letters will not fix the problems with the review.

    2. An immediate restart of regular monthly updates on the new review process, with clearly stated timelines for completion of the review to publication within one year from now OR Abandonment of the new review process.

    We welcome the November 2023 update and thank those who are working towards an accurate review. However, 'one swallow does not make a summer'; one update does not make a functioning process that will produce an accurate review in a timely way. There is, as yet, no evidence that Cochrane understands the key problem with the 2019 review, and therefore no evidence that any replacement review will adequately address it. There is no evidence that Cochrane appreciates the urgency of the need for change.

    It is also clear that people in favour of the old review are vigorously opposing change. Explanations for the two year silence include a lengthy process of dealing confidentially with several complaints, none of which were upheld. One complaint from supporters of exercise therapy for ME/CFS opposing the new review process seems to have taken around a year and the consideration of multiple committees within Cochrane to address.
    ________________



    So, four years after a process to replace the 2019 review started, it remains in place, and any replacement review is still some way off. More scarce health resources have been wasted delivering treatments that do not work and more people have been harmed. Crucially, more research with the same fundamental flaws that are ignored in the 2019 review - some on CFS, some on Long Covid and some on various "functional" diagnoses - has been funded and done, with the results going on to mis-inform clinical approaches around the world.

    We therefore continue this campaign.
    Thank you to all who have signed the petition. Please do keep spreading the word.

    Cochrane have now acknowledged receipt of our October complaint about the 2019 review; we expect a response soon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
    MEMarge, Ash, mango and 12 others like this.
  15. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  16. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is an interesting discussion developing on the comments thread at Hilda Bastian’s blog much of which involves members here https://hbprojecttalk.wordpress.com/2023/11/10/welcome/ (also linked to above). If you go to that page and get what looks like a blank page, clicking on the title Welcome seems to help.

    **********
    A new thread has been created for the discussion of the content of Hilda Bastian's talkpage facility here:

    Cochrane - Exercise therapy review - Hilda Bastian's Talkpage
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2023
    MEMarge, Sean, oldtimer and 12 others like this.
  17. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  18. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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  19. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  20. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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