Traumatic brain injury - similarities with and differences to ME/CFS, including PEM

Discussion in 'Neurological diseases' started by livinglighter, Mar 8, 2022.

  1. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Has anyone ever had all their pituitary and hypothalamus hormones tested (there are quite a lot of them) after severe illness or injury affecting the brain?

    According to this link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_hormones

    (I'm dubious about the following numbers because I wasn't sure which column I should be counting!)

    Anterior pituitary produces 8 hormones
    Posterior pituitary produces 2 hormones
    Hypothalamus produces 8 hormones

    I don't think its true that if one hormone from the pituitary or hypothalamus is low that they will all be low. Nor that if one hormone is absent they will all be absent - but they might be.
     
  2. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    I used to eat a lot of fruit but have a lot less now, after learning about the issues with fructose. Try to stick to the recommended 1-2 pieces a day, and shift the balance towards more vegetables.

    Not always easy with lots of delicious tropical fruits available here, and often quite cheap. Mangosteens, of course, being the possibly the nicest food I have ever tasted, are exempt from that rule. :woot: But they are one of the expensive ones, even here where they are actually grown, so are self-limiting anyway.
     
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  3. livinglighter

    livinglighter Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I want to look into this as I have a few abnormalities indicating I could have some hormonal issues.
     
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  4. Mister Person

    Mister Person Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Could PEM be, when neuron action potential fires, use of atp, atp require mitochondria and defective mitochondria generates more ROS, and then ROS causes DAMPS release from within the cell itself that the mitochondria is in, and that DAMPS released then activate glial cells which causes Inflammation cause pain and fatigue via activating pain nerves?
    Do ROS damage the cells that they are released from?

    Here i am just learning the very basics of biology and wondering
     
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  5. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    New Zealand scientists studying the brains of rugby players have made a significant breakthrough that could allow Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) to be diagnosed in living players.
    article

    @SNT Gatchaman

    Given the similarities in some of the symptoms and the hints we have had about issues with blood vessels in ME/CFS, it would be very interesting to have these researchers look at the brains of people with ME/CFS.

    I have no doubt that some people with CTE are being diagnosed with FND, so, hopefully this discovery will at least stop some of that.

    I don't know what the proteins they are suggesting are linked to inflammation are.
     
  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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  7. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights) Staff Member

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    Edited to remove duplicate:cross-posted with Hutan and now posted in its own thread as above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2025
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  8. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights) Staff Member

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  9. Deanne NZ

    Deanne NZ Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I was pleased to watch this too.

    At least for rugby playing men an FND misdiagnosis would be less likely due to Neurologists’ bias.
    Has the former player poster boy for LP/The Switch been active lately? EDIT - He’s doing fine Life Coaching & NLP& TV presenting etc - so obviously it was not CTE for him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2025
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  10. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights) Staff Member

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  11. poetinsf

    poetinsf Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Here is an old NYT article that empathized with ME/CFS patients after the columnist suffered concussion fatigue for a month. She didn't mention anything about her PEM though, so I asked AI for fun. The answer was: "While fatigue is a common symptom of post-concussion syndrome (PCS), post-exertional malaise (PEM), characterized by a worsening of symptoms after physical or mental exertion, is not a core defining feature of PCS like it is for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS)"

    It makes sense to me though, that PCS and ME/CFS should share features. The brain's immune system must get activated to make repairs after concussion and that obviously causes debilitating fatigue in PCS. But I can't think of a reason why PCS should involve PEM. In microglial model of ME/CFS, there are cells that are primed to get activated and they presumably cause PEM. PCS on the other hand involves normal activation. But maybe it's possible for some concussion to cause cells to get primed as well as activated.
     
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  12. EndME

    EndME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    PCS does involve something that could be described as PEM though (at least a vague definition of worsening of symptoms after physical or mental exertion is very common, edit: an example where an athlete describes developing brain fog following physical activity). A majority of people with PCS describes something somewhat akin to this and from what I've heard treatment often also used to be "lie in a dark room until you feel better" whilst now it is, more often than not, seems to be something more akin to GET. I'm however not sure whether there is a delayed form of PEM though or whether it always tends to be instant in PCS. As far as I understand the cause of fatigue in PCS is unknown, what is obvious about "immune system activation causing fatigue" what exactly is it supposed to mean when nobody knows what PCS entails?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2025 at 11:09 AM
  13. bobbler

    bobbler Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The old evidence based medicine tricking people into short term measures bolstered by false hope (and the natural frustration all humans have at not wanting to lie in a dark room) vs science and logic combined with long term outcomes
     
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  14. poetinsf

    poetinsf Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That was a poor choice of word on my part. I should've said "probably", not "obviously". "Probably" because immune system activation usually entails fatigue. Microglial activation in concussion has been observed, so the activation part is probably more than "probably".
     
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