Trial By Error: The Crawley Chronicles, Continued

Forestvon said:
I am an alumna of QMUL and when the student rang me for donation I told her re PACe waste of £250,000 and refused to donate, and wrote to the principal to say so and that I am now ashamed to be associated with them. It was after the event though.
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I was pondering this. I'm not an alumna of Bristol University thankfully, but had I been I'd be terribly ashamed to be associated with this turn of events. I know the Bristol Cable has covered some of these goings on in the past and I get the sense from that (could be wrong??) that the distrust of governance at BU is not confined to the ME community and that others are aware of issues too. I wonder if anyone has the energy to mail Tuller's blog to the Bristol Cable (assuming he hasn't already done so himself) in the event they might wish to consider this new turn of events? The closer we can get this information to the grass roots at BU the better I'd be inclined to think. I'm sure most present day students and alumni would be shocked to discover just what has been going on at their alma mater.
 
@Forestvon
Well done! I think the ME community is going to have to act individually as well as as a group and it will enhance our effect. It's harder to push away an individual well argued communication with rubbish about group harassment.
I think we should all be looking for opportunities to act as individuals with ME as well as part of a group.
Just imagine if there had been a number of individual contacts with the VC/ Principal. Maybe you didn't get a reply ?; but actually there will be an impact.
I do think it is incredibly tiring to write individually but imo, it makes a great difference.
Great work!

@Lilpink --sorry cannot fulfill that but it's a great idea.
 
Binkie4 said:
@Forestvon
Well done! I think the ME community is going to have to act individually as well as as a group and it will enhance our effect. It's harder to push away an individual well argued communication with rubbish about group harassment.
I think we should all be looking for opportunities to act as individuals with ME as well as part of a group.
Just imagine if there had been a number of individual contacts with the VC/ Principal. Maybe you didn't get a reply ?; but actually there will be an impact.
I do think it is incredibly tiring to write individually but imo, it makes a great difference.
Great work!

@Lilpink --sorry cannot fulfill that but it's a great idea.
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No didnt get a reply.
 
Forestvon said:
I am an alumna of QMUL and when the student rang me for donation I told her re PACe waste of £250,000 and refused to donate, and wrote to the principal to say so and that I am now ashamed to be associated with them. It was after the event though.
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I forgot to say student was shocked, and she hadnt read the account in the student newspaper so
I told her to check it out.
 
The reply from Bristol says:

If by a ‘cease and desist’ letter you mean a letter threatening legal action if the recipient does not stop a specified activity or behaviour, then I can confirm that the University of Bristol has not sent you or your institution such a letter.
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How does that make sense in response to Tuller's e-mail?:

http://www.virology.ws/2017/11/22/trial-by-error-hey-bristol-where-is-my-cease-and-desist-letter/

It wasn't he who created this strange term of "a ‘cease and desist’ letter". He wanted Bristol to explain if Crawley was providing accurate information when she said: “You have been so unbelievably defamatory and unprofessional that I had to get my university to send you a cease and desist letter." If they don't know what Crawley is talking about, maybe they should ask her to explain herself?

I now think I find that bit of the letter even more annoying than the rather pathetic reference to confidential high-level discussions about Tuller's work. I hadn't thought about it at first because I think I'd forgotten the details of Tuller's e-mail to them. So many irritating things...!
 
Esther12 said:
The reply from Bristol says:



How does that make sense in response to Tuller's e-mail?:

http://www.virology.ws/2017/11/22/trial-by-error-hey-bristol-where-is-my-cease-and-desist-letter/

It wasn't he who created this strange term of "a ‘cease and desist’ letter". He wanted Bristol to explain if Crawley was providing accurate information when she said: “You have been so unbelievably defamatory and unprofessional that I had to get my university to send you a cease and desist letter." If they don't know what Crawley is talking about, maybe they should ask her to explain herself?
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Yes that is very weird. Maybe everything they replied back to him was supposed to be in quotations marks as a meme. Or maybe as Crawley was saying....

“You have been so unbelievably defamatory and unprofessional that I had to get my university to send you a cease and desist letter....."

she was standing on the stage doing air quotes as she spoke the aforementioned line.

Its all getting very surreal!!
 
Esther12 said:
The reply from Bristol says:



How does that make sense in response to Tuller's e-mail?:

http://www.virology.ws/2017/11/22/trial-by-error-hey-bristol-where-is-my-cease-and-desist-letter/

It wasn't he who created this strange term of "a ‘cease and desist’ letter". He wanted Bristol to explain if Crawley was providing accurate information when she said: “You have been so unbelievably defamatory and unprofessional that I had to get my university to send you a cease and desist letter." If they don't know what Crawley is talking about, maybe they should ask her to explain herself?

I now think I find that bit of the letter even more annoying than the rather pathetic reference to confidential high-level discussions about Tuller's work. I hadn't thought about it at first because I think I'd forgotten the details of Tuller's e-mail to them. So many irritating things...!
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Wow, good catch, @Esther12 . Can't believe we all missed that until now. It's like someone spiked the punch over there in Bristol :alien:
 
Esther12 said:
How does that make sense in response to Tuller's e-mail?:
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Good spot.

If by a ‘cease and desist’ letter you mean a letter threatening legal action if the recipient does not stop a specified activity or behaviour, then I can confirm that the University of Bristol has not sent you or your institution such a letter.

However you will be aware that the University of Bristol has for many years enjoyed a close and valued collaborative relationship with the University of California, Berkeley, and it is my understanding that private and confidential communication has taken place at a senior level ...
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So the director of legal services at Bristol University is asking David Tuller to define what a "cease and desist letter" is, even though he was only quoting the term their employee, EC, had used.

If by ... however ... seems to be implying that the "private and confidential communication at a senior level" could be what EC was talking about, and that she could have been using the phrase "cease and desist letter" to refer to that. This is tortuous, weasely and ridiculous in the extreme, and I can only suspect that it was dictated by EC, because any lawyer should be embarrassed to come up with something so stupid.
 
Esther12 said:
It wasn't he who created this strange term of "a ‘cease and desist’ letter".
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This occurred to me also and I have been wondering what it tells us about the process.

This response was issued a short time after DT's expected blog on the subject. There seem to be two alternatives. Either this was a reply which had been under consideration for some time and which was merely hurried out when it became necessary because of the blog. Alternatively it may have been an adrenaline driven urgent response to which little consideration was given.

It should be assumed that the error regarding the "cease and desist" would not have survived a normal rereading and editing process, which leads one to suppose that this was not a message which was already in course of preparation. The suggestion of use of covert pressure also seems ill-judged and should not have survived redrafting.

One would expect the university to be aware of DT's modus operandi and they should have expected the blog, which was eagerly anticipated elsewhere. One is left with the feeling that DT's original message cannot have been considered particularly urgent, and they expect the furore to die down.
 
chrisb said:
One would expect the university to be aware of DT's modus operandi and they should have expected the blog, which was eagerly anticipated elsewhere. One is left with the feeling that DT's original message cannot have been considered particularly urgent, and they expect the furore to die down.
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Yes, it does rather sound as if the lawyer has no idea at all what is going on. Perhaps she simply ignored the original email until someone urgently prompted her to intervene at the last moment (indeed, after Tuller's blog was posted).

Though sometimes I suspect Crawley simply has access to everyone's stationery. It would make more sense to have one clueless idiot making these statements, rather than Bristol appearing to make a habit of it and hiring multiple clueless idiots :rolleyes:
 
So putting together what I think we've got so far I would translate Sue Paterson's letter as follows:

Dear Dr Tuller

Thank you for your email of 22 November.
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Fuck you.

If by a ‘cease and desist’ letter you mean a letter threatening legal action if the recipient does not stop a specified activity or behaviour, then I can confirm that the University of Bristol has not sent you or your institution such a letter.
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If by a 'cease and desist' letter you mean a cease and desist letter, we didn't send one.

However you will be aware that the University of Bristol has for many years enjoyed a close and valued collaborative relationship with the University of California, Berkeley, and it is my understanding that private and confidential communication has taken place at a senior level about your actions and behaviour towards staff involved with research into chronic fatigue syndrome and myalgic encephalomyelitis at the University of Bristol.
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Esther Crawley has told me that someone higher up than her (or maybe by 'senior level' she is referring to herself, God knows with that woman, could mean anything) has asked someone higher up than David Tuller to make him stop it, and that's what she was talking about when she said 'cease and desist letter', so she was right. It's just words innit? This 'communication' could have been a phone call or an email, but I'll call it a 'communication' to increase the likelihood of it being confused with a 'letter', thus making Esther's sloppy use of language look more pardonable. And while we're at it I'll use the passive construction "communication has taken place" to avoid saying who was communicating, how, and what was communicated. I'll also say "actions and behaviour towards staff" to make your blogs about Esther sound more menacing you naughty boy you.

Yours sincerely
Sue Paterson
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Yours insincerely
Sue Paterson as dictated to by Esther Crawley I've got to write this stuff I'll be retiring soon.
 
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I'm wondering whether this is just sloppy academic types who have a grandiose title but actually if put out in the real world they would flounder. Has this sue Patterson actually done a proper job outside of academia I wonder?

Sometimes (and no offence intended to those teachers on the forum) some academics and teachers who spend a lot of time with children and the uneducated get a false sense of their own credibility ...hence the patronising air often adopted with parents etc. I guess if this sue person has only ever surrounded herself with the academic bubble she may be blagging it somewhat?
 
arewenearlythereyet said:
I'm wondering whether this is just sloppy academic types who have a grandiose title but actually if put out in the real world they would flounder. Has this sue Patterson actually done a proper job outside of academia I wonder?

Sometimes (and no offence intended to those teachers on the forum) some academics and teachers who spend a lot of time with children and the uneducated get a false sense of their own credibility ...hence the patronising air often adopted with parents etc. I guess if this sue person has only ever surrounded herself with the academic bubble she may be blagging it somewhat?
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A quick google search shows what Sue used to do before she became the hapless mouthpiece of Saint Esther:

Sue Paterson - Director of Legal Services and Deputy University Secretary
Sue qualified as a solicitor in 1978 and practised for many years as a trust and tax lawyer both in private practice and in-house as trust lawyer to an international bank. During a career break from legal practice, she provided professional clerking services to school governors, specialising in appeals and complaints. Sue joined the Secretary’s Office in October 2006 primarily to handle student appeals and complaints. In May 2007, she was appointed to the position of Director of Legal Services and Deputy Secretary, acting jointly with Jane Bridgwater.
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Even though this is in the public domain, probably best if we don't concentrate too much on Sue, lest we be accused of God knows what. Is googling someone's name and posting their public blurb cyberstalking? Probably, in the mysterious world of Bristol Uni ...
 
arewenearlythereyet said:
Sometimes (and no offence intended to those teachers on the forum) some academics and teachers who spend a lot of time with children and the uneducated get a false sense of their own credibility
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arewenearlythereyet said:
I think it's always worth considering scale before trying to make a judgement on stereoyptypes.
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I guess you were just talking about small teachers then.
 
TiredSam said:
I guess you were just talking about small teachers then.
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Ahh just a casual observation after being patronised by many a teacher. Why do they make you sit on those small chairs at parents evening I wonder?

My experience of teachers is not that good so it's highly possible I'm biased, but i do think it should be compulsory for teachers to have held at least 5 years of employment outside of academia before being allowed to teach ..sort of sets them off right without all those delusions of grandeur you often see.
 
arewenearlythereyet said:
Why do they make you sit on those small chairs at parents evening I wonder?
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Maybe because there aren't enough adult sized chairs available in an infant school?

Seriously though, as someone who has experienced parents' evenings from both sides of the fence, they are not designed for real communication. Tired teacher trying to remember who they are talking about in the twentieth 5 minute conversation of the evening, and eager parent wanting to hear how special their child is... Recipe for platitudes and non communication.
 
arewenearlythereyet said:
Why do they make you sit on those small chairs at parents evening I wonder?
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Because no-one wants to carry big chairs over from the juniors, the teacher doesn't want you sitting there longer than your allotted time and they have to sit on them a fair bit too during the week.
arewenearlythereyet said:
all those delusions of grandeur you often see
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Because they spent all day, everyday telling children what to do the bossy tone becomes a habit (and gets up everyone's nose).
 
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