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USA: InCellDx Dr Patterson - New lab service offering cytokine tests to Covid longhaulers

Discussion in 'Laboratory and genetic testing, medical imaging' started by Braganca, May 6, 2021.

  1. Braganca

    Braganca Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This US lab service claims to have great success diagnosing long covid patients and successfully treating them. They offer a lab assay of interleukins and cytokines. It’s not clear which are offered. The literature is not yet published.

    https://covidlonghaulers.com/

    interview with the founder of company.
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1389834002387853314


    Evidence linked to on site is a medium article and an unpublished paper.
    https://covidlonghaulers.com/wp-con...al-Disturbance-in-Long-Haulers-12-22-2020.pdf

    https://covidlonghaulers.com/wp-con...Decoded-Using-Machine-Learning-12-22-2020.pdf
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
    Barry, Helene, Hutan and 2 others like this.
  2. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This looks highly suspect (and I'm not just talking about the website's aesthetics / design). The Myhill mitochrondia test comes to mind....
     
    Sid, Barry, Hutan and 7 others like this.
  3. Braganca

    Braganca Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes.. My recollection from ME researchers who study immune system is that cytokines fluctuate greatly based on time of day, or subject activities, or medications, and therefore make poor diagnostics. Is that correct?
     
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  4. InitialConditions

    InitialConditions Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm not an expert but I think you might be correct.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  5. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's a lot of scepticism about this group among LC patients. They've been making big promises (eg, announcing that they'd found the cause and cure for LongCovid in 2020) and delivering little.
     
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  6. Braganca

    Braganca Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oh good. I got the opposite impression on Twitter, that they were believing them, which was worrisome.
     
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  7. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This team has been making those claims for months. I think their enthusiasm level is much higher than their results are.
     
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  8. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  10. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Peter Trewhitt and Hutan like this.
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    We have threads on two papers by Dr Bruce Patterson:
    Persistence of SARS CoV-2 S1 Protein in CD16+ Monocytes in Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC) ..., 2021, Patterson et al (in prep)
    Immune-Based Prediction of COVID-19 Severity and Chronicity Decoded Using Machine Learning Patterson et al. 2021

    As far as I can see, those two papers just identify some changes in the immune systems of people who have Covid-19, or have had it fairly recently and have lingering symptoms. Neither paper had controls of people who have had Covid-19 and don't have lingering symptoms. Have there been any other papers by Patterson that might be relevant?


    Yes, they compared patients with Covid-19 (mild to severe cases) and patients with 'PASC'(=Long Covid) with controls who had not had Covid-19. I can't see how they can say that the PASC patients were completely different and abnormal - there was no comparison with the immune system of people who were recovering well from Covid-19*.

    The machine learning paper characterised the PASC patients:
    * Edit - see for example this paper Dendritic cell deficiencies persist seven months after SARS-CoV-2 infection, 2021, Pérez-Gómez et al - even people only mildly affected had immune systems that were still recovering 7 months after their Covid-19 illness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I cannot see any point in following empty marketing like this. When there is some science I will take a look.
     
  14. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
    Barry likes this.
  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It will only ramp up if people give it attention - so why give it exposure?
     
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  16. Dakota15

    Dakota15 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I may be late to the game with this convo - but don't you think at least with Dr. Patterson's background, he deserves some benefit of the doubt before we label him snake-oil, no?

    Maybe it's my blinders on, but I can't imagine the former Medical Director of Diagnostic Virology at Stanford University Hospitals and Clinics to be propagating false narratives to drive a bottom-line.
     
    Jaybee00 likes this.
  17. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is never any room for 'benefit of the doubt' in science. So much work in science is flawed by poor methodology and over enthusiasm. Unless you assume that work may be hyped before you read you will find yourself taken in by all sorts of empty stuff.

    But generally it is not too difficult to identify the good work - it gives you hard data upfront and draws modest conclusions. And good scientists don't tweet to market their work. People like Fluge and Mella deliberately discouraged people from using their proposed treatment before it was properly tested.

    I don't think having been part of a university hospital is any guarantee against becoming a snake oil merchant.
     
  18. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Sadly, I agree. I can think of a couple of examples who have come here to tell us about their 'nutriceuticals' and gone away again when we probed and criticised their so called research that was small, brief and open label studies, and/or 'it works for my patients'.

    We condemn the BPS snake oil sales people who push CBT/GET/LP etc on the basis of flawed studies. We need to be consistent and do the same for any pharmacological treatments too.
     
  19. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  20. 5vforest

    5vforest Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Am I allowed to post it? It's an opinion piece, I don't know why it would be behind a paywall.... (edit: to clarify, I clicked it and there is no paywall for me, and I am not a subscriber.)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2022
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