Who is Simon Wessely?

I'm also interested.

 

You can listen to the interview at

The quote you mention is around 11 minutes - 11 minutes 30 seconds.

 

Many a true word....

 

Thanks @Eagles !

Having listened to the interview, I find the quote to be less controversial than I imagined it at first. I suspect there isn't much difference for treatment if the trigger of your ME/CFS was EBV or cytomegalovirus or something else. So that doctors focus on managing current symptoms is probably normal. It's because Wessely has an unrealistic view on the possibility of rehabilitation through CBT, that the quote sounds controversial.

 

Basically, "you got the flu so what, its gone now and you are malingering. Do our CBT and GET rehab and you will be cured of your faulty illness beliefs and deconditioning".

 

I think it's a bad idea to use to term 'malingering' when putting forth the views of those who have not used that term.

 

Needless to say, they should be in the business of doing everything they can think of to try to falsify their hypothesis.

 

But they already looked under the streetlight. Surely you can't expect them to look any further? The streetlight is right there and just way more cozy than the darkness out there. There is nothing outside the cavern and the shadows on the wall are the only reality.

 

Its not a bad idea you just think it is.

 

You think it's a good idea?

I think it's unethical when Wessely and co try to make patients seem worse than they are, and the same is true if anyone does the same to Wessely.

Also, it harms attempts to draw attention to real problems with their work, allowing them to present their critics as either ill-informed or else deceptive.

Here's Wessely doing just that: https://twitter.com/user/status/1109541267334148096


When people are not careful with their criticisms it makes it easier for Wessely to get away with the mistreatment of patients.

 

This is my post in full @Esther12.....

Its clearly me paraphrasing if you read it properly as indicated by the fact that the whole statement is in inverted comas.

You are the one now bringing it to everyone's attention aligning it to Wessely as if I claimed it to be a direct quote.

Perhaps you shouldn't do that if you are so concerned about that issue.

 

How are we to know what he thinks or doesn't think?

It's a question of what the reasonable person might reasonably infer from his words, taking into account the circumstances in which they are uttered or written. He is able by his conduct to affect and alter such inferences.

 

I read what you said and followed the discussion fine. I respondedg to your paraphrasing by saying "I think it's a bad idea to use to term 'malingering' when putting forth the views of those who have not used that term."

Then when you disagreed with my point I tried to explain why I thought it was valid, using an example of Wessely complaining about being falsely ascribed views about malingering. I never said that your comment claimed it was a direct quote - it clearly was not.

I think that there is a danger that if other patients were to trust your re-interpretation of Wessely's words, and allowed that to influence the claims they made to others, this could be harmful and encourage the view that patient critics of Wessely's work are unreasonable.

 

So within two sentences you go from realising it was paraphrasing to calling it "my reinterpretation of his words?

 

I thought your attempted paraphrasing was an unhelpful reinterpretation of his words, and I've already tried to explain why.

 

@Esther12 dont let Wessely gaslight you will his faux outrage. By falling for that you are allowing him to shut down the numerous ways people point out his ludicrousness including using satirical paraphrasing.

Look at post 9 in this thread from rvallee the comment and the cartoon. Do you think that's a claim that Wessely is looking for wallets under streetlights? Why not issue one of your warnings on that post too?

 

It's not about falling for being gaslighted, it's about trying to learn from problems of the past. The cartoon doesn't play into the prejudices that are used to dismiss patients - acting as if Wessely views CFS patients as malingers when he has not said that does, even if it's intended to be a form of satire.

 

"Other patients"?

Just let people think for themselves @Esther12 .


There is no need to constantly over react to people statements.

 

Just like Camelford. No need to bother testing these youngsters for ingested/inhaled toxins. Couldn't be that. Just because that's not an interesting story. Better the pixie-fairy dust story.