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BPS attempts at psychologizing Long Covid

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by rvallee, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Just further on that, in case anyone wanted to respond to Essen University:
    from the BMJ: Mental disorders are highly prevalent in Germany
    They found that "the 12 month prevalence for any mental disorder was 31%" in this random sample of German adults. PTSD was not assessed.

    So, it's actually possible to say that mental disorders are less common in people turning up to the Essen Hospital with lingering effects of Covid-19.
     
    Michelle, Mithriel, EzzieD and 9 others like this.
  2. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Having a “Mental disorder” provides 100% protection against physiological consequences of viral infection don’t ya know :rolleyes:
     
  3. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How is this different from "We have the impression that the symptoms are triggered by negative karma from past lives. This can also be treated very well. But the willingness to do so is less pronounced because people don't accept that they have behaved badly in their past lives"?

    The only difference is that in the West, one narrative is culturally accepted and the other is not.

    With these kind of views, the patients who need real help are going to run away quickly, leaving only the ones that are recovering anyway where everything you do will appear to work (until you test the treatment with a proper control group).
     
  4. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This idea of dismissing physical or physiological causes for symptoms of any disease or health problem if the people concerned have a previous psych diagnosis is just bizarre as far as I'm concerned. It suggests that being mentally ill automatically confers total protection on the patient from any physical disease.
     
  5. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It'd be nice if it did.

    One little pill to give someone a minor diagnosable psych condition.....could cure cancer, heart disease, or maybe even the effects of being in a plane crash.

    Hoyfully they ate work8ng on this
     
  6. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Medicine is also subject to fashions.

    This is a man with no sense of irony.
     
  7. lycaena

    lycaena Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deut...rus-montag-einundzwanzigster-februar-100.html

    https://twitter.com/user/status/1495868665312550916


     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
    alktipping, Snowdrop and boolybooly like this.
  8. Haveyoutriedyoga

    Haveyoutriedyoga Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "It is interesting that people from the education and health sectors as well as from the service and administration sectors are represented much more frequently than, for example, craftsmen or construction workers. It seems to affect more people who are interested in health issues and who observe themselves more closely."

    Construction workers and craftsmen don't work in packed classrooms or hospitals, offices and pubs! And how did they establish who is more interested in health and self monitoring??
     
    Mithriel, lycaena, Missense and 6 others like this.
  9. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    You get this sort of reasoning with allergies and food intoleranse as well. "I don't ever have to deal with any fussy eaters when there are male construction workers as the table!" I was told after getting a long rant about women and academics and their fake problems.

    Those males that don't see the doctor about their digestive upset or other GI symptoms, or like the one I met at the clinic who had been ill every time after eating for five (!) years. Not exactly something that is talked about in those circles. Stop being a sissy (Sorry to any males on the forum for the stereotype)
     
  10. lycaena

    lycaena Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Large public funded psychosomatic study to research Long-COVID. It is led by the psychosomatic department of a university clinic in Munich with the participation of several clinics in other German cities. The announcement is from October 2021. https://www.mri.tum.de/news/psyloco...chosomatische-studie-zur-erforschung-von-long

     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
    Sean, Michelle, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  11. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nice of them look into this.

    I have long thought that such people, departments could really help people.

    Of course they may not like being custard pie targets, but that would just show their determination to help improve lives.
     
  12. lycaena

    lycaena Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They express themselves more cautiously than the neurologist from Essen, who says Longcovid without test results = psychosomatic.

    But this clinic has or had a bad reputation regarding ME/CFS. (Not to be confused with the Children's Hospital in Munich which takes ME/CFS seriously.) The study does not sound encouraging to me, vague buzzwords, a digital self-help programme ... possibly just more patient blaming and waste of money?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
    Sean, alktipping, Michelle and 3 others like this.
  13. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmm, I imagine for all those with Long Covid who recover (the majority) some of the assistance this study mentions could be really helpful - the support for return to work for example. What's the bet that that good support is all rolled up with the psychosomatic overlay, so there's no way to tell which bits were helpful? (I haven't checked - I would be pleasantly surprised if the study had a design testing different combinations of the 'building-blocks' and the outcomes include meaningful objective ones).

    They've been reading the BPS manual closely. A pilot study to fine tune the experimental design so that a positive result is assured - and then monetise the approach with a digital programme marketed to governments on the basis of cost-savings. @dave30th
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
    MEMarge, Sean, SNT Gatchaman and 5 others like this.
  14. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2022
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  15. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is astonishing how little critical assessment is being made by those in a position of authority. E.g. it has been established that case-control stratification via seropositivity is significantly compromised. And of course results are meaningless when cases are in control groups. As has been pointed out single-symptom comparisons are also meaningless in this context.

    The guidance to let-it-rip amongst children carries enormous risk. This is currently the messaging in NZ now too, despite the fact that we have absolutely no data on Omicron's long term effects and poor vaccine uptake for 5-11. We've recently heard that Pfizer offers little protection against infection in the 5-11 yo group, also. But everyone now seems to have convinced themselves "it's mild" and "just a cold".

    Similarly, everyone seems to have assured themselves that children's mental health will suffer unless they are in school and unmasked. It should go without saying that their mental health will suffer more from a lifetime of chronic illness or transmitting the virus to a vulnerable family member.
     
  16. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Covid: How could the pandemic have affected your brain?

    "Memory loss, fatigue and trouble concentrating can be symptoms of having had coronavirus.

    But scientists think people who haven't had Covid are also suffering increased tiredness, impaired decision-making and a lack of focus due to the pandemic.

    Experts believe Covid uncertainty and disruption to routines have led to a phenomenon known as "pandemic brain".

    A leading behavioural neuroscientist is now calling for more research into it.

    "People form habits so we see friends on a particular day or enjoy a sport on a particular evening - and that lack of regularity can be quite challenging," said Dr Emma Yhnell."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60558431
     
  17. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  18. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  19. Haveyoutriedyoga

    Haveyoutriedyoga Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "True, heart and respiratory problems also occur. As a rule, these are still likely to be direct consequences of the acute covid-19 disease. We refer such patients to other places."
    So...ongoing physical problems following acute covid are real, but they filter those people out and send them elsewhere. Then, some 90% of those left do not have organically caused ongoing physical problems. They only call the latter "long covid".

    What???

    Also, their filtering strategy seems to miss about 10%
     
  20. Haveyoutriedyoga

    Haveyoutriedyoga Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Apparently a major barrier to recovering from COVID/long covid is believing that you wont.

    No words on that one.

    And also once physical tests are done you will know *for sure* whether there is anything physically wrong with you. This is news.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mucOkzFCuaI


     
    ukxmrv, Ariel, Sean and 7 others like this.

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