Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

Snow Leopard said:
I'd just like to comment on the frequent claims in the media that all of the vaccines "prevent" severe illness and death. Unfortunately, this is not true. The clinical trials did not have sufficient sample size for any conclusions on this. However real-world data shows that while the risk is significantly reduced, vulnerable people who have been vaccinated are still dying.

Data from Israel
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765

Data from Scotland:


Only prevention of transmission will stop people from dying!
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Seems to provide evidence for going with a single dose --- reduction in hospitalisations 95%? I wonder if this will encourage the the UK Westminster Government to further delay second doses i.e. to get more people a first dose.

Still, only sure approach to avoid severe illness/death is not getting the virus!

If you were responsible for the decision @Snow Leopard would this data suggest the optimal time for the second dose is e.g. 28 days -- or is it still not clear?
 
FMMM1 said:
Seems to provide evidence for going with a single dose --- reduction in hospitalisations 95%? I wonder if this will encourage the the UK Westminster Government to further delay second doses i.e. to get more people a first dose.
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The 94% figure is nonsense, lacks sufficient sample size to have any confidence for generalisation.
Have a look at the data in the appendix. The efficacy in the first few weeks of both vaccines (against hospitalisation) is in the 50-75% range)
But there is a lack of data for the AZ vaccine in general.

If you were responsible for the decision @Snow Leopard would this data suggest the optimal time for the second dose is e.g. 28 days -- or is it still not clear?
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There is a lack of long-term data, but nothing in the data suggests that later than 21-28 days is superior for the Pfizer vaccine.
 
Moved post

Vulnerable say they've been ‘forgotten’ as Covid vaccine goes to young and healthy
While a U-turn was made on those with learning disabilities, following a campaign by the BBC DJ Jo Whiley, 55, those with moderate asthma, for example, are still not eligible.

And sufferers of ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis) - an incurable chronic illness which causes crippling exhaustion - also say they have been overlooked.
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Emma Tripp, 19, from Chandlers Ford, Hants, caught Covid in May and has been bedbound for 10 months after it triggered a relapse of her ME.

The family's surgery told her that her illness does not qualify for priority vaccination.
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vulnerable-say-theyve-been-forgotten-23581830
 
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So it turns out that actually the reason the district nurses aren’t coming out is not just because we are not in the catchment area.. it’s because my GP practice has actually opted out of allowing district nurses to vaccinate and said it should be the GP practice doing it only. But the GP practice isn’t doing it either, and I’m only on a “list”. We cannot get hold of the manager, despite trying for many weeks now and many messages left.

We have sent a message to MP but he doesn’t ever do anything remotely effective, if he does anything at all that is.
 
lunarainbows said:
So it turns out that actually the reason the district nurses aren’t coming out is not just because we are not in the catchment area.. it’s because my GP practice has actually opted out of allowing district nurses to vaccinate and said it should be the GP practice doing it only. But the GP practice isn’t doing it either, and I’m only on a “list”. We cannot get hold of the manager, despite trying for many weeks now and many messages left.
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What a farce. :banghead:
 
lunarainbows said:
So it turns out that actually the reason the district nurses aren’t coming out is not just because we are not in the catchment area.. it’s because my GP practice has actually opted out of allowing district nurses to vaccinate and said it should be the GP practice doing it only. But the GP practice isn’t doing it either, and I’m only on a “list”. We cannot get hold of the manager, despite trying for many weeks now and many messages left.
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Sounds as if it might be time for an email to the local BBC/ITV television news desks? Or at least a post on their social media feeds?

Also, a friend with an unhelpful MP said his attitude changed magically when she posted a series of public tweets about the issue that criticised his lack of response. After weeks and weeks of trying to get support for an elderly neighbour, it was resolved within days.
 
lunarainbows said:
So it turns out that actually the reason the district nurses aren’t coming out is not just because we are not in the catchment area.. it’s because my GP practice has actually opted out of allowing district nurses to vaccinate and said it should be the GP practice doing it only. But the GP practice isn’t doing it either, and I’m only on a “list”. We cannot get hold of the manager, despite trying for many weeks now and many messages left.

We have sent a message to MP but he doesn’t ever do anything remotely effective, if he does anything at all that is.
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Have you tried emailing your CCG about this? Maybe their complaints email. Technically it is NHS England responsible for GPs (as well as the vaccination programme overall), so maybe an email to their complaints team too? This does seem to be happening across the country.
 
Simbindi said:
Have you tried emailing your CCG about this? Maybe their complaints email. Technically it is NHS England responsible for GPs (as well as the vaccination programme overall), so maybe an email to their complaints team too? This does seem to be happening across the country.
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That was going to be the next thing we did. My mum called again and asked to speak to the manager and had a long phone call with the receptionist - told her she would be putting in a complaint - then they magically managed to get hold of the manager and said that a GP would be coming out to vaccinate me this week. If it doesn’t happen, then yes we will go to the CCG / NHS England.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56240220

Latest results on vaccine rollout
Vindication for UK's decision to approve AstraZenea for over 65s according to Jonathan Van Tam.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-uk-update-latest-coronavirus-news-live-b1809068.html

Matt Hancock announces 80% reduction in serious illness in over 70s following single jab of both vaccines.


PHE has published more data today from which I think the above is drawn but I haven't yet found it online.

eta: PHE has now released its new data. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-show-vaccines-reduce-severe-covid-19-in-older-adults

Sorry, haven't read it yet. It's not long been up.
 
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Is that all over 70s serious illness? Or just the serious illness relating to covid-19?

Or did he, as I would suspect, not clarify so imply, to those not paying attention, that the vaccine is 80% effective against all illnesses in the over 70s?
 
Binkie4 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56240220

Latest results on vaccine rollout
Vindication for UK's decision to approve AstraZenea for over 65s according to Jonathan Van Tam.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-uk-update-latest-coronavirus-news-live-b1809068.html

Matt Hancock announces 80% reduction in serious illness in over 70s following single jab of both vaccines.


PHE has published more data today from which I think the above is drawn but I haven't yet found it online.

eta: PHE has now released its new data. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-show-vaccines-reduce-severe-covid-19-in-older-adults
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The headlines are potentially misleading. None of the data is generalisable, but merely of suggestive evidence due to non-random selection of participants. The length of followup data is too short and the AZ data is particularly limited in sample size.

Efficacy for both vaccines was in the 60% range, but as noted the sample size for the AZ vaccine is quite limited.


cases who had been vaccinated with one dose of BNT162b2 had an additional 43% (95%CI 33-52%) lower risk of emergency hospitalisation and an additional 51% (95%CI 37-62%) lower risk of death. Cases who had been vaccinated with one dose of ChAdOx1 had an additional 37% (95% CI 3-59%) lower risk of emergency hospitalisation. There was insufficient follow-up to assess the effect of ChAdOx1 on mortality due to the later rollout of this vaccine.
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(1-0.6) x (1-0.37) = ~75%
(70% efficacy bumps this up to 80%)

This may sound impressive, but it is not. Of vaccinated individuals over the age of 80, the mortality rate of symptomatic cases was still 6.80%.

There are over 3 million people in the UK aged over 80. 3,000,000 * 0.7 * 0.068 = over 60,000 deaths.
 
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This is the sort of thing that may happen when you have a group which, after a year of being told that it's unsafe to go out (more unsafe than usual anyway) is told that the vaccine, whichever it is, is stupid percent effective against everything that's out there, for everyone who takes it.

Especially when they see virtually everyone else living life pretty much as normal, as unlike lockdown season one where traffic dropped to virtually nil here, the traffic is the same as 'normal' loads of people out and about etc - look out of my window and you wouldn't know it was supposed to be a lockdown - even the local postie isn't wearing a mask any more.

The reality may be 'slightly' different, but this isn't what the text, or, more importantly, the subtext, in the media is saying.

It's not a mixed message, it's a very clear message, it just happens to be the wrong message.
 
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Wonko said:
This is the sort of thing that may happen when you have a group which, after a year of being told that it's unsafe to go out (more unsafe than usual anyway) is told that the vaccine, whichever it is, is stupid percent effective against everything that's out there, for everyone who takes it.

Especially when they see virtually everyone else living life pretty much as normal, as unlike lockdown season one where traffic dropped to virtually nil here, the traffic is the same as 'normal' loads of people out and about etc - look out of my window and you wouldn't know it was supposed to be a lockdown - even the local postie isn't wearing a mask any more.

The reality may be 'slightly' different, but this isn't what the text, or, more importantly, the subtext, in the media is saying.

It's not a mixed message, it's a very clear message, it just happens to be the wrong message.
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I use this site to track “activity” and impact of the lockdowns

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...keconomyandsocietyfasterindicators/4march2021

The high street one in particular tracks quite well against other sources I have that are pretty definitive. Main drivers aren’t peoples common sense or how compliant they are it’s the fact that everything is shut and the “lockdown” doesn’t affect business in the same way as before.

upload_2021-3-5_8-32-8.png

If you look further down on the site at road traffic and job adverts (sorry it won’t let me paste the graphs) you can sort of conclude that unlike the first time in April last year, more people are working and using their cars. This is reflected I think by how many people are designated key worker status which is much higher than when the first wave hit (some schools have nearly 50% attendance as opposed to much much lower before).

Now there are much more Amazon and other Internet delivery drivers using small light cars as opposed to before, where even heavy good vehicles were impacted as people worked out what was and was not in scope and things like food moved away from foodservice and were redeployed to grocery. A lot of the people that were working in restaurants and bars are stacking and picking groceries now.

Not the whole story but paints a bit of a picture.
 
Still haven’t had the vaccine, tried to contact GP via dr iq online and been told “Nurse will contact you beforehand” when I tried to get an exact date and time, and then when I asked again “very soon”. So I guess it’s still not happening. I’ll get my mum to make a complaint to the CCG today.
 
Lol, my CCG are not even taking on complaints:
Unless they deem it comes under immediate patient safety.

“Complaints, comments and compliments”

In light of the impact of COVID19 on NHS services, NHS England has issued advice on how CCGs should deal with formal complaints during this difficult time. This advice is that the NHS Complaints process may be “paused” for three months to allow NHS staff providing healthcare to concentrate on this and responding to the challenges of COVID-19.

As a result of this there will be some limitations to the complaints service that NHS South West London CCG will be able to provide. However, you can be assured of the following:

  • You will still be able to make a formal complaint or raise concerns about NHS services in South West London (our contact details are below).
  • All complaints and concerns will be acknowledged and recorded.
  • They will also be checked for whether any immediate actions are needed to ensure patient safety.
However, to ensure that the delivery of our COVID-19 response is not affected, NHS South West London CCG will, for the duration of the pause, only investigate and respond to complaints where matters requiring urgent attention are involved. Any other complaints will be responded to in due course once the pause has ended.

NHS South West London CCG very much values the views of patients and other people, and considers any complaint or enquiry about the services it commissions as a vital part of reviewing and, where necessary, improving these.”

https://swlondonccg.nhs.uk/contact-us/complaints-comments-and-compliments/
 
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