Genetics: Chromosome 17 CA10

In which case, I’d be interested in whether the CA10 variant associated with ME/CFS just generally increases neuron excitability.

Aside from DRG and hypothalamus, I would agree that some general central nervous effect would be plausible. Maybe the most basic question is whether CA10 is flagging up nerve cells rather than muscle or whatever. It seems likely, if the hit is similar to pain syndromes, but i would be great to be sure.
 
Cerebellum is an interesting suggestion. The only thing against it for me is that symptoms of ME/CFS don't seem to have much to do with what cerebellum is supposed to do - fine tune motor activity for smooth action and maybe roll out motor routines in complex actions.
I agree. I think it would be a good area for fundamental research into what CA10 does, since it might be most active there. But it's expressed in other parts of the brain as well, and the ME/CFS-relevant function or effect could be somewhere else.

Maybe it would be helpful to get an idea of what kind of research you are planning on doing @James Cox. Is it more like determining specific functions of CA10, or something like looking at if people with ME/CFS or chronic pain have differential expression of this gene somewhere in the nervous system, or maybe something else?
 
I agree. I think it would be a good area for fundamental research into what CA10 does, since it might be most active there. But it's expressed in other parts of the brain as well, and the ME/CFS-relevant function or effect could be somewhere else.

Maybe it would be helpful to get an idea of what kind of research you are planning on doing @James Cox. Is it more like determining specific functions of CA10, or something like looking at if people with ME/CFS or chronic pain have differential expression of this gene somewhere in the nervous system, or maybe something else?
I probably shouldn’t go into too much detail at this stage here, but understanding the function is the priority. In general that is probably what we are best suited to contribute - i.e. trying to understand the biology of the genes that have been highlighted by DecodeME and how they may contribute to the symptoms.
 
I probably shouldn’t go into too much detail at this stage here, but understanding the function is the priority. In general that is probably what we are best suited to contribute - i.e. trying to understand the biology of the genes that have been highlighted by DecodeME and how they may contribute to the symptoms.
Understood, that's helpful, thank you.
 
i.e. trying to understand the biology of the genes that have been highlighted by DecodeME and how they may contribute to the symptoms.
I think the fact that some people with an ME/CFS diagnosis have severe pain from being touched, some have pain when exposed to light and sound, but others don't have these sensitivities is interesting. Could the feeling of fatigue be usefully thought of as another type of pain? What is the disease course with respect to these sensitivities - do they come and can they also completely go? Or do they just add to symptoms over time, and worsen? Is there a tight relationship between these sensory sensitivities and overall ME/CFS severity? There is so much we don't know.

@Andy, was the information collected in the DecodeME surveys enough to create subsets of people with these various sensitivities? E.g. if we wanted to identify a subset of people with a sensitivity to touch and/or to light and sound, could we? Or would that require another survey?

It seems to me that creating subsets of DecodeME participants based on the presence of sensitivities would be especially useful when it comes to making use of the SequenceME results.
 
I think the fact that some people with an ME/CFS diagnosis have severe pain from being touched, some have pain when exposed to light and sound, but others don't have these sensitivities is interesting
Would you describe it as pain? I guess it can be painful but to me it‘s not pain in a sort of „ouch“ sense its more pain in a sort of „deep discomfort“ my body is telling me this needs to stop, almost more like „cringe“ or „overwhelm“?
 
I think in extreme sensory hypersensitivities can meaningfully be described as pain, but that this pain is different to muscle pain or headache.
I think my case is extreme. In the sense that I haven’t been able to hear a sound without getting discomfort in 2.5 years. So I havent spoke or been spoken to in that long. I wear industry grade earmuffs 24/7. Yet for me it‘s more like „sensory overload“ and the risk of PEM than pain per say.
 
And yet I think we have seen some people describe exposure to sound and to light as painful, and we definitely have seen people describe being touched, and the touch of clothing and sheets as very painful, in some cases so much so that they have not been able to continue living.

For symptoms so consequential, (and your situation @Yann04 illustrates it, I'm so sorry that you have to bear that), we know remarkably little.
 
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and the touch of clothing and sheets as very painful, in some cases so much so that they have not been able to bear to continue living.
I can absolutely imagine that. I would say the same about sound if I didn‘t have earmuffs.
Maybe I‘m missing the nuances in english. Because as you‘ve mentioned there isn‘t good vocabulary for this. But the „pain“ is more like to me, that deep feeling of discomfort/this isn‘t right, that i might get in my chest if I see my arm fallen out of its socket or my grandma fall down the stairs. It‘s absolutely visceral but the feeling is very distinctive to what I‘m used to describing as „pain“ like inflammation that hurts when touched, headaches, cuts etc.
 
Sound, touch, smell, etc. can feel like being in pain without actual pain. I get the same «please make this stop ASAP» feeling.

I have felt it before getting ME/CFS, but only with touch. If would happen when I had recurrent severe stomach issues that caused intense pain, and being touched was extremely uncomfortable.
 
Sound, touch, smell, etc. can feel like being in pain without actual pain. I get the same «please make this stop ASAP» feeling.
Yes as you say, it's incredibly unpleasant. I wear noise cancelling earbuds or regular earplugs a lot of the day because sounds can just be unbearable sometimes. Rustling of plastic bags and stuff are torturous. I usually can't listen to more than a few songs in a row before I have to take a break, and on a bad day anything but calming ambient drones causes that feeling. Same with speech, sometimes my partner will talk and its like.my brain is being assaulted with words.

When the unquantifiable unpleasant sensations have been really bad, in a crash or whatever, I've sometimes said I'm in agony because there's no closer word for what it feels like.
 
@Andy, was the information collected in the DecodeME surveys enough to create subsets of people with these various sensitivities? E.g. if we wanted to identify a subset of people with a sensitivity to touch and/or to light and sound, could we? Or would that require another survey?
The screening questionnaire asked

"In the last 6 months, have you been over-sensitive or intolerant to any of the following things often, repeatedly, or constantly? Please mark any that apply. If none apply, leave all the boxes blank.
Alcohol
Chemicals
Food
Light
Medicine
Noise
Smells
Touch
Other things"

and the secondary questionnaire, which only a sub-set of participants completed, asked if "Sensitivities/intolerances" would "get worse or develop" when experiencing PEM.
 
Would you describe it as pain? I guess it can be painful but to me it‘s not pain in a sort of „ouch“ sense its more pain in a sort of „deep discomfort“ my body is telling me this needs to stop, almost more like „cringe“ or „overwhelm“?
This is exactly my question. I dont feel pain but I feel deep discomfort if someone touch especially my calves. Also cold water is very uncomfortable for me. I have also that light and sound intolerance, chemical sensitivity, i dont have a good sense of smell. I also would like to know if this gen is somehow connected to heat intolerance which is very bad in my case.
 
Yes as you say, it's incredibly unpleasant. I wear noise cancelling earbuds or regular earplugs a lot of the day because sounds can just be unbearable sometimes. Rustling of plastic bags and stuff are torturous. I usually can't listen to more than a few songs in a row before I have to take a break, and on a bad day anything but calming ambient drones causes that feeling. Same with speech, sometimes my partner will talk and its like.my brain is being assaulted with words.
Yes, I am same. It’s not feeling of pain, it’s feeling overwhelming discomfort like my brain is buzzing and vibrating and normal level noise is too loud, too fast and I can’t think or process anything anymore and must get to a quiet dark place. And the overwhelming fatigue and weakness comes then usually afterwards. (When I see people with autism depicted on TV w sensory overload I wonder if it’s same pathways)
 
Could the feeling of fatigue be usefully thought of as another type of pain?

I'm not severely ill and don't have touch sensitivities related to ME/CFS (autistic ones yes, but I've always had those), but much of my pain and fatigue are the same thing. Things that relieve pain, such as weak opioids and hot showers, relieve fatigue.

Some of the pain is specific (in the muscles, mostly quads), but a lot of it is unattached. There are several different sensations muddled together, and it's perceived as heaviness-type fatigue. Painkillers relieve it, but have no effect on tiredness or feeling 'empty of energy' without heaviness.

It's the reason I say I'm not sure fatigue is even a major part of the illness for me. It's probably more accurate to describe it as generalised pain.
 
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