Chandelier
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
1000-word article in The Washington Post:
Long COVID involves activation of proinflammatory and immune exhaustion pathways, 2025, Aid et al.
- Thread starter SNT Gatchaman
- Start date
HHV-6B reactivation is already quite well understood from the research into the problem in immuno-suppressed patients. So there is no need to reinvent the wheel.
Immune response to HHV-6 and implications for immunotherapy - PMC
Most adults remain chronically infected with HHV-6 after resolution of a primary infection in childhood, with the latent virus held in check by the immune system. Iatrogenic immunosuppression following solid organ transplantation (SOT) or ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I don't follow. Since we have no evidence for 'immuno-suppression' in ME/CFS presumably we do have to find another explanation. (Large numbers of studies of ME/CFS have found immune cell populations and behaviour to be normal, with maybe some cells showing a bit more activation. There were some papers claiming defects in NK cells but even the original authors had trouble replicating those. Jackie could not replicate any NK defect.)
Meta-analysis of natural killer cell cytotoxicity in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome - PMC
Reduced natural killer (NK) cell cytotoxicity is the most consistent immune finding in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). Meta-analysis of the published literature determined the effect size of the decrement in ME/CFS. ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
In Buddhism we have a saying that goes along the lines of: A beginner's mind has a lot of possibilities whereas an expert's hasn't.
It came up for me while chatting with you.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Yeah, well I guess the opposite could be just as true:
A expert's mind has a lot of possibilities whereas an beginner's hasn't.*
After all if the Buddhists are experts on this they presumably realise all the possibilities.
Sort of an oxymoronic saying?
(*Accounting for your apparent interest in just one possibility!)
Utsikt
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Thread here:Meta-analysis of natural killer cell cytotoxicity in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome - PMC
Reduced natural killer (NK) cell cytotoxicity is the most consistent immune finding in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). Meta-analysis of the published literature determined the effect size of the decrement in ME/CFS. ...
I find that the easiest way to check if a study has been posted here is to search for the name of the first author and tick off the titles only box.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
To be fair, the Baraniuk, Eaton-Finch and M-Gradisnik paper is a bit puzzling.
Sonya M-G originally worked with Nancy Klimas on NK cells. Klimas never seemed to be able to reproduce the findings in a way that could be used in a clinical setting. James Baraniuk muttered an aside to me in 2015 that Nancy couldn't even replicate the basic data.
Fast forward ten years and James is teaming up with Sonya and co to write this despite the fact that nobody else much has been able to substantiate it as far as I know. A bit weird.
But the real bottom line for me is that nobody really knows what these NK tests mean in immunocompetence terms and they are notoriously difficult to get consistent. If there really was immunocompromise we should see opportunistic infection and we don't. I am pretty sure that the whole idea dates back to the AIDS days when a few people thought ME/CFS might be similar to AIDS. But that never panned out. There was no retrovirus. There were no consistent cell changes. Nobody with ME/CFS got pneumocystis pneumonia or Kaposi's sarcoma. It just wasn't there.
Sonya M-G originally worked with Nancy Klimas on NK cells. Klimas never seemed to be able to reproduce the findings in a way that could be used in a clinical setting. James Baraniuk muttered an aside to me in 2015 that Nancy couldn't even replicate the basic data.
Fast forward ten years and James is teaming up with Sonya and co to write this despite the fact that nobody else much has been able to substantiate it as far as I know. A bit weird.
But the real bottom line for me is that nobody really knows what these NK tests mean in immunocompetence terms and they are notoriously difficult to get consistent. If there really was immunocompromise we should see opportunistic infection and we don't. I am pretty sure that the whole idea dates back to the AIDS days when a few people thought ME/CFS might be similar to AIDS. But that never panned out. There was no retrovirus. There were no consistent cell changes. Nobody with ME/CFS got pneumocystis pneumonia or Kaposi's sarcoma. It just wasn't there.