Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

[Hutan]

Was anyone else struck by how similar his video appeared to @Adam pwme's videos in the opening sequences? The music, the text, the clip of someone talking. The similarity broke down really quickly of course, because whereas Adam was able to use a whole range of experts to make points, in Garner's video it's just all about him. And, of course there's a major difference in how much sense each video makes. I wonder if Garner and his production team watched Adam pwme's excellent Long Covid video.

 

[Kalliope]

 

[Ariel]

Every time I read something from this man I am struck by how easy it is for people, even people who have been fortunate enough to receive many years of education, to delude themselves and believe really stupid stuff.

According to his own account he rested for quite a while at the beginning of his illness. He rested to the point of developing a "fear of exercise". Why is this not a story about an importance of getting adequate rest early in the illness? The idea that bed rest and convalescence are needed for recovery is consistent with and forms part of what he says. Makes no sense to focus on one part - the latter part - of the story, even on its own terms.

Unfortunately I am not sure people can see this. The narrative is a swirl of self-congratulation and an attempt to repurpose the stale ideas of cranks and charlatans. This should be embarrassing. I hope people are seeing how foolish and wrong this is. Sometimes I think it's so obvious it may backfire on him, but this doesn't seem to have happened yet. He's writing pieces in the Guardian and being invited by the RCGP to speak about it. I am disappointed that this is being tolerated; many of us have had our lives devastated by long covid. It is insulting and wrong that this is continuing.

 

[Amw66]

I haven't been able to watch. Is that globe for demonstration purposes? Does he use it to explain his scuba diving trip to Grenada last year? Timeline could certainly use clearing up.

Perhaps it has all the places highlighted where he went in 2020 .... when he was ill ...

 

[Ariel]

Perhaps it has all the places highlighted where he went in 2020 .... when he was ill ...

This is what I was thinking. Little stickers on the globe - little flags - or something.

 

[Sean]

"fear of exercise".

It is interesting how they always talk about exercise, not activity.

 

[FMMM1]

Someone is organizing press coverage for him. He may just be seen as a better press spoke person.

Scary --- if you look at the Newsnight program Garner was embarrassing. The two female scientists who were doing trials [presumably unblinded and with subjective outcomes] and just wanted to help people, seemed to be a more difficult group to challenge -- at least in terms of public perception.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Someone is organizing press coverage for him. He may just be seen as a better press spoke person.

I don't think anyone is likely to want Garner as a spokesperson.He is completely off message for all the relevant vested interest groups except perhaps Phil Parker. BPS people are not going to want people to think you can close down all the liaison psychiatry and rehab centres and employ Lightning therapists. There is a lot of competition within the field!

 

[Barry]

Ah, but his specialty is infectious diseases, and he has chosen the realm of psychiatry.

... and so closing the BPS circle.

 

[rvallee]

Weird, I thought "thoughts, emotions and stress" were always involved? He didn't say more involved, he just said involved. Can't even keep their own talking points in line.

Dear Nisreen. Yes, agree there is stigma against conditions where thoughts, emotions, stress etc are involved. But what´s the implication? Should we pretend it's "somatic" to avoid stigma? Not talk about it? See the shaming Paul is subjected to.. He's very brave. Stand with him.

 

[Ariel]

I don't think anyone is likely to want Garner as a spokesperson.He is completely off message for all the relevant vested interest groups except perhaps Phil Parker. BPS people are not going to want people to think you can close down all the liaison psychiatry and rehab centres and employ Lightning therapists. There is a lot of competition within the field!

I think he is sowing confusion and encouraging the uncritical acceptance of bullshit - particularly among people who may also be inclined to attribute their own long covid recoveries to positive thinking or strength of character. Unfortunately, this is what many want to believe.
He is not specifically on message, but this general atmosphere of confusion and particular style of quack pseudo-explanation does seem to help BPS approach along with those offering myriad dubious and patronising "services".

 

[Adrian]

I don't think anyone is likely to want Garner as a spokesperson.He is completely off message for all the relevant vested interest groups except perhaps Phil Parker. BPS people are not going to want people to think you can close down all the liaison psychiatry and rehab centres and employ Lightning therapists. There is a lot of competition within the field!

You are probably right I was thinking arranging interviews and getting journalist contacts can be hard but remembered he is friends with the journalist who interviewed him on newsnight so obviously has contacts

 

[PhysiosforME]

Has anyone written a letter to the CMOs about this?

we did write to the CMO in the middle of wave 1 when he said this in one of the press conferences. Probably worth following up now that Long Covid is more obvious

 

[Helene]

This may be beside the point but I am truly amazed that after a mere 6 months Garner "wondered if he would ever get better".

I may be a bit thick but it was only after 30 years of ME that it occurred to me that I might not recover.

 

[chrisb]

... and every time you "recover" from a relapse you think: this time it's really it.

Clearly we failed to see the opportunities. Media careers, etc.

 

[Ariel]

we did write to the CMO in the middle of wave 1 when he said this in one of the press conferences. Probably worth following up now that Long Covid is more obvious

Did you get a response? I really think it's worth doing to write to the CMO now about this "exercise is good for all illnesses" stuff.

I didn't know he'd made a claim like this in one of the press conferences. Which one was it/what did he say? That is disappointing. I was hoping he was more sensible than this.

 

[MSEsperanza]

Not sure if we have a thread about some health care professional's enthusiasm about exercise as medicine in general.

Don't feel up to search or open a new thread so apologies if that's too off topic:

https://www.movementandthemind.co.uk/

(Garner currently not listed as a speaker -- just thought he could fit.)

And there's that Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/exerciseworks

 

[Sly Saint]

Recovering from Long-covid
podcast
Paul Garner, Professor of Infectious Diseases at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, joined Sean on the show. (Jun 14)

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-moncrieff/recovering-from-long-covid

 

[rvallee]

Has anyone ever milked 90%+ odds more than this guy? Technically given his circumstances definitely higher than 95%. Imagine someone boasting for years that they "won" a coin toss. I can't, it's too pathetic and this is far worse.

It's really putting medicine in a bad light that there are medical professionals promoting this crap. How do they have such poor judgment to begin with? Are the standards to get a medical degree 100% memorization with nothing else added or what?

 

[Kitty]

It's really putting medicine in a bad light that there are medical professionals promoting this crap.

But on the other hand, if I kept telling the world I went swimming last week and it was my enormous determination and strength of character that stopped me picking up the verruca virus from the changing room floor, at least everyone would know I'm so stupid that I ought to be sidelined professionally at the first opportunity...