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Persistent fatigue induced by interferon-alpha: A novel, inflammation-based, proxy model of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2018, Pariante et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by MeSci, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Blimey he lost his grip - if he had had the hump with the headline surely he would have commented in his tweet to say it wasn’t his choice of words. All I can say is if you tweet a stupid Scum headline don’t be surprised if people challenge you DUH
     
    NelliePledge, Dec 19, 2018
    #301
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  2. Unable

    Unable Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is excellent cover when a group want to slide some dodgy stuff through unremarked. Set the organisation up as denouncers of all poor science. Throw accusations at “unsound” research. Establish aname. Then if they, and other “independent” organisations, declare a certain type of research “sound”, they will be believed. After all they were right about all that other stuff. ??
     
    Unable, Dec 19, 2018
    #302
    Lisa108, MEMarge, ladycatlover and 6 others like this.
  3. Robert 1973

    Robert 1973 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think they all know the value of being helpful to the SMC when it comes to promoting their own work. I imagine Carmine Pariante may have volunteered his time at short notice once or twice. It seems to work a bit like the Masons. Does anyone know if they have a secret handshake?
     
    Robert 1973, Dec 19, 2018
    #303
    Lisa108, MEMarge, ladycatlover and 11 others like this.
  4. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If they have I am sure it must involve surgical gloves.
     
    chrisb, Dec 19, 2018
    #304
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  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    You scratch my back i’ll scratch yours. I can’t remember who mentioned David Attenborough’s dynasties séries but the one about Chimps comes to mind.
     
    NelliePledge, Dec 19, 2018
    #305
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  6. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a good summary.

    I'm waiting for the paper in 18 months' time from Chalder, Pariante, Russell et al showing how they helped this fatigue using CBT/GET (moderate, subjective, temporary improvement, of course). In the ensuing media coverage orchestrated by the SMC, Sharpe will say all along that psychology and physiology are the same thing and that they'd always said ME was a real illness but that the best hope of treating it was CBT/GET but of course more research is needed. Vindication.
     
    JohnTheJack, Dec 19, 2018
    #306
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  7. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it's too much of a judgment call for the Commission. I think it's the political route we need to go down for the SMC.
     
    JohnTheJack, Dec 19, 2018
    #307
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  8. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree it is a good summing up of the study and some of the good and bad points about it.

    A couple of questions, @JaimeS.
    Increased fatigue gives a higher CFQ score.

    CFQ is subjective (and rubbish), and is a major part of the analysis and argument made by the researchers, so I'm not sure this statement makes sense.

    I note you also don't comment on the feebleness of the p values used to justify some of their arguments, and the fact that they seem to have cherry picked which results to include.
     
    Trish, Dec 19, 2018
    #308
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  9. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    yeah, this sounds ridiculous but of course is a real concern. The motives of the GET/CBT ideological brigades and their enablers at the SMC are unclear. Are they going to find a way to prescribe GET/CBT for this dysfunction or are they doing this because they recognize where things are going and they just need to claim ownership of some corner of biomedical research into the illness?
     
    dave30th, Dec 19, 2018
    #309
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  10. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    I would have bet that a few months ago, but given how discredited the PACE trial is, I'm not sure it is tenable, and even they are starting to realise it. But at the same time, they've shot themselves in the foot so often, so they may try...
     
    Cheshire, Dec 19, 2018
    #310
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  11. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Measuring *increased* fatigue is actually something the CFQ should be quite good at, ironically.
     
    Lucibee, Dec 19, 2018
    #311
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  12. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Have you seen the news about Karl Morten? He has found a lot of abnormalities and has just put in a £1.6 million bid to the MRC to expand that work.

    He says the metabolic abnormalities in patients don't improve with GET.

    What might be happening now is that the CBT/GET people are panicking and trying to preserve some space and funding for biopsychosocial approaches for vague fatiguing conditions. The Pariante paper is compatible with the CBT/GET model where the perpetuating factors are psychological.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
    Hoopoe, Dec 19, 2018
    #312
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  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Have you seen the chimpanzee episode David?
     
    Jonathan Edwards, Dec 19, 2018
    #313
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  14. lycaena

    lycaena Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    German articles: https://www.spektrum.de/news/chronische-erschoepfung-durch-immunreaktion/1614796 popular science magazine https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/chronische-erschoepfung-krank-durch-hyperaktives-immunsystem public radio station
     
    lycaena, Dec 19, 2018
    #314
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  15. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    Cheshire, Dec 19, 2018
    #315
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  16. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Presumably a lot is because of syndicated content from Reuters??
     
    NelliePledge, Dec 19, 2018
    #316
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  17. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Can we all now please start referring to Prof M Sharpe as Michael ‘the thing’ Sharpe in deference to his expertise in medical terminology
     
    NelliePledge, Dec 19, 2018
    #317
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  18. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    It also implies that it was perfectly reasonable not to believe us until now, as this is the first evidence blah blah
     
    TiredSam, Dec 19, 2018
    #318
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  19. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "“If the thing is triggered by an abnormal or excessive immune response, if we could find a way to reduce that immune response, we might stop incident cases.” Prof. Michael Sharpe.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/17/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-could-be-triggered-by-overactive-immune-system?CMP=share_btn_tw …
    via @Guardian #MECFS #ImmuneSystem #Inflammation #Pariante #CFSModel"

    and CBT and exercise will be the way to reduce the immune response, with carefully designed trials to get the right result.
     
    Mithriel, Dec 19, 2018
    #319
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  20. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    CBT to reduce stress?

    So why retweet?
     
    TiredSam, Dec 19, 2018
    #320
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