Persistent fatigue induced by interferon-alpha: A novel, inflammation-based, proxy model of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2018, Pariante et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by MeSci, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The Lever et al (1988) reference is this letter to The Lancet (if anyone has access).

    The text in the book goes on to summarise this study account:
    30 years have gone by, and we seem to be going backwards, not forwards. If researchers really were serious about catching this in the early stages, they should be actively looking for Coxackie B4 outbreaks. Where is Public Health in all this?
     
  2. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    The alpha male is called David by the way
     
  3. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    One thing I think is strange AFME haven’t covered this on Facebook, they usually publish media coverage for discussion. I looked on twitter and they started a thread there but hardly anyone replied. I’m not sure why They didn’t share this wider since the CMRC is there big thing.
     
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I have just re-read Nick Brown's very good analysis of the problems with the research paper, reproduced in David Tuller's piece.

    I wonder if this is a case where asking for the raw data would be valuable.

    The fact, as Nick points out, that the authors appear to have cherry picked the 4 week data rather than the 8 or 12 week data to base their analysis on suggests the latter may not support their hypothesis. I think the data should be published in full so others can do the analyses they have chosen not to publish.
    .......................

    I note also that there seems to be some link between depression and cytokine levels, so maybe that is muddying the fatigue measuring, since CFQ doesn't distinguish depression related fatigue from other fatigue.

    ............................................

    This table shows IL-10 is the only one that drops below the magic p = 0.05 significance level. Doesn't there have to be some adjustment for multiple comparisons? I would expect a random set of data like this to throw up one or more values like this by chance.
    .......................

    It all seems to me to be a big muddle based on a tiny inconclusive study from which the 20 authors have done their best to cherry pick something 'significant' to publish and hype madly.

    Bah humbug.
     
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  5. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Uh, oh! In my personal experience, men who refer to themselves as "alpha-males" seem more like beta-males to me. I don't personally know any actual apes.
     
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  6. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've just done a transcript (getting to be a habit this) of Pariantes interview on Radio 4; quite different from the one with @JohnTheJack .

     
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  7. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That’s just inaccurate from the start because whilst not yet explained it’s not a mystery. Mystery in peoples minds equates to nothing known , nothing can be found, not serious like real disease, PS factors important
     
  8. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    MH category and cLassification is there for a reason. Someone turns up in A & E, knowing they have serious mental health issues, or serious physical illness is useful to determining appropriate care. I am reluctant to go onto the Leeds inpatient service in a mental health ward because I’m aware of this difference and don’t feel confident the nurses will have appropriate understanding and approach to my illness, debilitation and physical sensitivities.

    He says now we need to look at....
    Basically he’s saying what we need to do is look at the physical changes that post infection are perpetuating the illness, well isn’t that what biomedical research advocates have said necessary for decades whilst his college put main emphasis on PS perpetuators. Did it Take this study to actually get to this level.
     
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  9. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks so much for that.
     
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  10. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, @sTeamTraen AKA data thug Nick Brown is well aware of the background.
     
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  11. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Their CEO is off, having surgery, so I suspect some of their other activities may be reduced for a while.
    Hopefully they are concentrating on removing BPS info from their website.
     
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  12. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Good point. But that doesn't fit the narrative of how Wessely rescued the illness and was the only one who took it seriously.

    It is 30 wasted years.
     
  13. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So in the Radio 4 interview Pariante said:
    And in the BBC Wales interview he claimed:
    So he is actively promoting the confusion. I don't think this qualifies as a mistake. I think this demonstrates he is deliberately lying to gain personal benefit from it.

    The fact that the paper only reported the measurements at 4 weeks and not at other timepoints also seems highly questionable.

    Perhaps one of the ME organisations should write a critique of these questionable practices by the Pariante team?
     
  14. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Would that not be a breach of "big tent" rules.
     
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  15. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Great find!
     
  16. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is @Keithgeraghty on here?

    Pariante made a statement in 2012 that ME was caused by excessive rest in predisposed individuals. I think I have seen this here ( not sure) and cannot find it, but Keith has I believe tweeted about it with full context. I don’t tweet so can’t investigate further.

    I would like to hear Pariante questioned about whether this is still his belief, which I think is reasonable in the light of the huge publicity given to his small piece of research.

    ETA:’ and cannot find it ‘ added in para 2
     
  17. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not to mention contacting GPs who have done their CPD webinars and letting them know that the info is not pukka.
     
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  18. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    He wrote it in a review comment a while ago...

    Here's Keith aluding to it here...
    https://twitter.com/user/status/841214874436923392


    [I'll edit this post when I find the relevant statement]

    Got it!
    https://twitter.com/user/status/838001798971523073
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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  19. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Here you go.
    https://static-content.springer.com/openpeerreview/art:10.1186/1741-7015-11-64/12916_2012_824_ReviewerReport_V2_R2.pdf

    ETA: That's from a link here:
    https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-64/open-peer-review
     
  20. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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