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2021 Pan-Europe ME Patient Survey (EMEA)

Discussion in 'Advocacy Projects and Campaigns' started by Wyva, May 11, 2021.

  1. trudeschei

    trudeschei Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Holmsbu, Norway
    We closed the survey today for all languages. We received 12.197 responses in total. Some of those will be incomplete, but we are still well beyond out goal of 10.000 responses. Thanks to everyone who shared, and to everyone who answered!
     

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  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    5,083
    Was this ever published? If so, does anyone have a link.
     
    rainy likes this.
  3. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,259
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    @trudeschei
     
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  4. trudeschei

    trudeschei Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Holmsbu, Norway
    No, it is not published yet.
    We had very few respondents from English speaking countries.
    Norway (with a population of 5 million) had 3000 responses, while there were only 900 form the UK (with an estimated 250000 ME patients) and around 500 from the US. With the help og OMF we are now trying to reach the US and the UK, but the response is lukewarm this time round as well. I am at a loss when it comes to reach these these patients :(

    Please share!

    https://no.surveymonkey.com/r/courseofillness22

    Here is a page on our website about the survey as well:
    https://www.me-foreningen.no/course-of-illness-survey-2022/
     
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  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,225
    Location:
    UK
    Have you tried UK ME organisations? I think the ME Association and Action for ME might be willing to encourage their members to do the survey.
     
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  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    5,083
    From ME Research UK:

    Yesterday (7th April) was World Health Day 2024, under the slogan ‘My health, my right’. To coincide, the European ME Alliance released the first-ever Pan-European survey which underscores the urgent priority for healthcare systems to recognise ME/CFS as a serious physical illness and provide better medical care, financial support, and social services, as well as a fully funded long term strategy of biomedical research into the disease. Read a summary and specific results from the UK repondees - https://tinyurl.com/367j5evm #MECFS #MyalgicE #MyalgicEncephalomyelitis
     
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  7. trudeschei

    trudeschei Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Holmsbu, Norway
    The survey is now published through European ME Alliance:
    https://www.europeanmealliance.org/documents/emeaeusurvey/EMEAMEsurveyreport2024.pdf

    We asked about when respondents got ill, how long it took to get a diagnosis, how the course of illness had been, and about factors that had affected course of illness.

    • Many respondents had been ill for a very long time, 20 , 30 or 40 years.
    • Many had waited very long for a diagnosis, in norway 6 years, longer in most other countries.
    • A long period from onset to diagnosis was associated bort with ,more severe disease and a more serious course of illness.
    • Those with early onset were overrepresented among the severely ill, regardless of disease duration
    • A deteriorating course of illness, or a fluctuating one, was far mor common than improvement over time
    • Very few felt they received good supprort from their health care system, welfare system, schools or other public institutions
    • Other ME patients were seen to be most supportive
    • Pacing (energy envelope) and being active within the energy envelope were the most beneficial coping strategies
    • CBT (as a "cure") and exercise therapy was harmful, CBT as a coping tool marginally beneficial
    The report also contains breakdowns for all countries. W are happy to share country data with organisations that want them for their country.
     
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  8. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,492
    Location:
    Cornwall, UK
    There is a discrepancy here:

    "5% had experienced mainly improvement. Only 1% reported mainly improvement."
     
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  9. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,231
  10. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,853
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Great initiative to do the survey; great interview, big thanks to all involved.

    A couple of comments I had on what was said in the interview.

    There's good data there on people with ME/CFS not being opposed to/frightened of activity, which is something we are often accused of. There's a chart shown at 16.42 on factors affecting the course of the illness. 'Physical or mental activity within energy envelope (avoiding PEM)' was rated second most helpful only to pacing.
    There is also good data in the survey about harm caused by GET and 'CBT as cure' (also noted that 'CBT as support' tended to cause more harm than good in severe patients)

    The discussion about recovery reminded me that I think we still aren't getting across rates of recovery in a nuanced way. By that I mean, we aren't acknowledging the fact that a lot of/most people recover in the first couple of years. By doing that, we make it easy for people who do recover in that time frame to think that they are special and that whatever they did at the time of their recovery was instrumental in their recovery. People promoting the psychogenic hypothesis and rehabilitation do truly see people recover, because people do recover. It's just that there is no evidence that their 'think better' treatments cure.

    Trude says that she would like to take back the term 'biopsychosocial'. She points out that things like financial difficulties and lack of family support do make a difference to prognosis. I think this is a really interesting thought. Things like stigma certainly do make a difference to feelings of self-worth, and willingness to seek medical support for ME/CFS and other health issues. Going forward, I am going to avoid calling the proponents of the idea that ME/CFS is psychogenic and/or can be fixed by positive thinking and getting off the sofa 'BPS proponents'. I'll probably just avoid the term 'biopsychosocial'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2024 at 9:00 PM
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  11. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,425
    Location:
    Canada
    The idea that health has multiple dimensions encompassing those three is wise and good. Even necessary. It definitely needs to happen in the future.

    But the biopsychosocial model has effectively made it impossible to do this in medicine. The recent renaming of the American psychosomatic society (or association, whatever) to substitute psychosomatic with biopsychosocial is just one of many examples of how the terms have blurred to the point where there is no distinction. Biopsychosocial has forever been sullied. Psychosomatic gives the game away. Functional had that perfect neutrality and it's precisely because of this that it was coopted.

    And with recent decades, holistic has essentially become synonymous with quackery and pseudoscience. In trying to deceive, this industry has essentially killed useful labels, by equating them with, well, them.

    So we're really running into a vocabulary wall here. The idea is fundamentally good, done well it would improve health care. Sick people do need social and psychological support (though very rarely from therapists or clinicians), but the BPS ideology is largely built to deny it and more, in large part being motivated by insurance and disability programs who want to exclude disabled people without looking like monsters.

    But really there are only so many words that can be used, and if things go on for much longer there will simply be none left to label what is good about this notion, essentially killing this idea. Even patient-centered and evidence-based now basically mean nothing at all, they're purely marketing labels.

    It would probably require a fully neutral and made-up term that can't be substituted or equated to a perverted version of the same ideas. But even then, with time they'd just corrupt it anyway. Just like they did with pacing, to make it mean the opposite. Or how they commonly use patient focus groups, 'listening' to them, only to simply push forward the themes and ideas they want. They corrupt everything they touch, and see nothing wrong with it. It's quite absurd.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2024 at 11:34 PM
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  12. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Location:
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    I agree. We should avoid that term completely, and use psychosocial/psychogenic/psychosomatic. The proponents have made it abundantly clear that is their real view of it. The bio stuff is just a bit of marketing speak.
    Good idea in principle, but completely hijacked by the psychogenic fanatics.
     
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  13. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    2,059
    Location:
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    That's a good idea in principle. Most people outside our circles don't think much about what BPS actually means - to be fair, academics have been arguing about the originally intended meaning for decades and are still disagreeing. But history aside, if pushed, most people out there today assume it means something akin to what holistic used to mean before the quacks got hold of the term, something to do with supporting ill people socially and psychologically, all very positive and laudable and how could anybody be upset by it. Easy to see why people might get confused by our resistance to 'BPS'. I remember not so long ago our previous Director-General of Health proudly stating that NZ followed the BPS model and I'm sure he meant BPS not 'BPS'

    So avoiding the term where possible is not a bad strategy. However, when psychosomatic proponents self-style themselves as BPS it would be good to have a term that makes it clear their 'BPS' isn't BPS as most people assume it is. Faux-BPS?
     
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  14. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I mentioned in the interview, biopsychosocial is really parallel to what public health refers to as "social determinants of health." I've mostly avoided the term or dissing the term because, you know, it should be a legitimate term. It's just that these people have hijacked it for their own purposes. So I was very glad Trude made the point that 'BPS' is not the same as actual BPS.
     
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  15. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    7,159
    Location:
    Australia
    Psycho-BPS
    BPS-Lite
    bPs
    I can't believe it's not BPS.

    More seriously, if they are going to claim the importance of psychological and social determinants, then they are going to have to account for how persistent misdiagnosis and mistreatment and (wilful) misrepresentation of patients and their objections can be a major secondary psychosocial adversity, making the already very serious primary adversity imposed by the disease itself vastly more difficult and horrendous.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2024 at 1:53 AM
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  16. mango

    mango Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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