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Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

Discussion in 'Epidemics (including Covid-19)' started by hinterland, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Touch wood, I can't tell you the last time that I've had the flu. It is well over 40 years ago. The first 20 years of ME/CFS I got colds all of the time and they lasted for weeks. The last ten years I've only had the one cold that I can think of and it was my worst cold ever. That was about five years ago and it turned into a sinus infection that needed antibiotics.
     
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  2. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In rural towns & cities here in the US most folks have both. The few who don't could get it indoors. There is already wide spread drive-thru testing which has been successful.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  3. Leila

    Leila Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sorry to hear :( Are you back to your old baseline or is it to soon to tell?
     
  4. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We don't have the hard numbers for SARS-CoV2, but we do have numbers for other viruses. Thus it is likely that those who have a robust adaptive immune response will have much lower viral loads and a strongly shortened period of time for which an individual may be infectious for those in close contact (touching, kissing etc).

    I don't really see how it could be a problem. However I would suggest those who had a PCR confirmed infection don't really need to be immunised at least for a few years and possibly many years (unless they had a condition that led to them failing to mount an adaptive immune response). Secondly, given a shortage of vaccine doses it is initially preferable that these doses go to those who do not yet have any immunity.

    The clinical trials haven't yet included people with prior COVID infections in any sort of significant numbers, so recommendations that these people should be administered is not yet based on direct empirical evidence.
     
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  5. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is just as likely, if not more that the increased in ME symptoms is due to the effort of fighting the infection rather than anything specific about the virus, though there may be a bit of both.

    Another thing that should have been investigated in Me years ago if research had not been side tracked by BPS nonsense.

    I deteriorated badly each time I had a bad infection which is why I get the flu jag every year. It doesn't seem to affect my ME at all, but we are all different and it is hard to predict.
     
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  6. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  7. Bill

    Bill Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'll be getting vaccinated the second I get the opportunity--and I'll be doing everything I can to stake out my legitimate place in line until then.

    I've suffered from 36 of post-viral illness and do not want to endure (or die from) Covid 19.

    In the balance of risks I'll take those of being vaccinated any day. Not a remotely close call.

    Bill
     
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  8. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    Just a quick follow up on my households situation. Our GP surgery rang up today to offer mother-in-law the vaccine. My wife explained our thoughts on the subject, that due to our personal circumstances we definitely are in favour of getting vaccinated but would prefer to get it all at the same time, and also wait for, hopefully, the risk of catching it while getting the vaccine to go down. The surgery was understanding of the situation, agreed it made sense, and so we have postponed it for now.

    My wife wanted me to pass on her appreciation for everybody's input, it helped settle her own thoughts on the subject, and she's happy that we've taken the best decision we could for us.
     
  9. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is that the flu vaccine or the COVID vaccine? I've been offered the flu vaccine, and said no thanks (due to autoimmunity and fear of side-effects).
     
  10. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    The COVID one, but the flu one was discussed as well. For the same reasons, we are postponing getting that for the moment as well.
     
  11. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Can we even get the covid-19 vaccine as we have ME/CFS? As some researchers believe that there is an autoimmunity connection to ME, wouldn't that then make us ineligible? We've been told here in BC that if we have a diagnosed autoimmune disorder, then at the present time we can't have the vaccine until more is known about the risks it presents.
     
  12. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Autoimmune conditions in general are not exclusionary. The only exclusionary condition seems to be Guillain Barre Syndrome and even then there is a debate within the medical community.

    Notably, Dr Fauci recommended against it for those with such a history.

     
  13. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I watched the Town Hall last night on CNN with Dr. Fauci and the Surgeon General while they answered questions from viewers. Many were concerned about the risks involved with the vaccine and autoimmune diseases. They both agreed that there is zero negative effects from the vaccine, and that the only issue is that their immune system might not produce as many antibodies from the vaccine to protect them from COVID.

    That was my understanding anyways.
     
  14. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It may not be relevant, but many of us with ME, even quite severe, longstanding ME, have the flu jab every year with no problems. I have also had the pneumonia jab at the same time too.

    I have deteriorated badly both times I have had flu so I am worried about covid-19 interacting with my ME not counting the risk I face due to my age and comorbid conditions so I have read enough to decide my safest bet is to take the vaccine.

    There is no certainty for any of this for us with ME and the few experts who understand enough about it to give us advice are not far from plain guessing either.

    If it goes well we will have made the right choice and if it goes wrong we will not. A time machine would be the only thing able to give a certain answer :)
     
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  15. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am seriously feeling a lot more confident about getting the vaccine now after watching the Town Hall on CNN last night. My only issue is that I'm still fighting a viral infection. It will most likely be gone by the time the vaccine is available for us so I just have to wait.

    I wrote a while back that I was ok with wearing a mask forever so that I can avoid the vaccine. I have changed my mind. I absolutely hate wearing a mask on my short outings. I can't breathe very well with it on, and have to keep undoing it just to breathe. I get overheated as well.
     
  16. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I had a look into this because I've had at least one significant demyelination event (not Guillain-Barré syndrome), documented on MRI. The neurologists can't quite agree on what it was but but the favoured explanation seems to be Transverse Myelitis, the same thing they stopped one of the vaccine trials for (or at least that's what the rumours were at the time).

    So I went looking for some info on vaccinations and demyelinating disorders. That's all sorts of vaccinations, not Covid ones, since any advice at this stage is based on experience from vaccinations in general.

    There are studies comparing risk of experiencing a demyelinating event following vaccination in the general population that show little if any increased risk from various vaccinations, so that's reassuring.

    But I can't find any studies on the risk of a second event in predisposed people, i.e. in people who currently have, or who have had, a demyelinating disorder.

    So then I looked at how various patient organisations advise their members with regards to vaccinations and turns out their advice is all over the place, please take your pick. Broadly speaking opinion - and it does seem to be no more than opinion - divides into two lines of thought.

    1) Get vaccinated.

    Reasoning: both virusses themselves and vaccinations against the same virusses can cause demyelination events, those events are rare for both triggers, and getting the virus is generally more dangerous overall than the vaccination.

    2) Don't get vaccinated (unless you're at particularly high risk of catching the virus).

    Reasoning: if there's a good chance you won't catch the virus why run the risk of a demyelination event from the vaccination because while such events are rare they can be serious as anyone who's had one knows all too well. Rely on herd immunity.

    Well, that's conclusive then. Not. I'm almost pleased it'll be at least 6 months before I'll be offered the a vaccine and have to decide whether to take it or not - though I rather doubt there'll be much better evidence by then to base the decision on.
     
  17. Forestvon

    Forestvon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I am 81, I had a letter saying I wd get the Pfizer vaccine though it talked of going to a centre which I cant do as cant use wheelchair. Not sure if nurse will come out if it is that one that needs to be -70.
    I would prefer to wait a bit too as I live alone with twice daily carers so scary if I got a reaction.

    I havent had the flu jab since ME as just see carers as friends know not to come if they have a bug.
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The CDC has issued some guidance regarding the possibility of allergic reactions to Coivid-19 vaccines. Apparently, 6 people in the US have had a "severe" allergic reaction to the vaccine (out of 272,000 vaccinated so far), but no deaths.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/allergic-reaction.html

    It seems to say that you only need to be be concerned if you've had a severe reaction to a previous vaccine. Other allergies do not seem to be a concern. They also say:
    Unfortunately, they do not provide a list of ingredients. :rolleyes:


    For flu shots, I know that one of the questions they ask beforehand is, "Are you allergic to eggs?," but the Mayo Clinic website says "Neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccines contain egg."
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  19. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There has only been one study that actually asked GBS and CIDP patients whether they had a relapse of symptoms after vaccination:
    https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/73/3/348

    Guillain-Barré syndrome has several variants and is specifically characterised by axonal damage, rather than demyelination, though some of the variants have myelin damage in addition to damage at the Node of Ranvier. The primary cause is autoantibodies directed against gangliosides.

    Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy is the umbrella term for peripheral neuropathies due to myelin damage. There are a variety of associated causes, with autoantibodies against one or more of Myelin Associated Glycoprotein, one of several Neurofascin Contactin-1, or Contactin-associated protein 1 and potentially T-cell responses in some cases.

    Notably, these are all cell-surface involved in cellular adhesions and have many documented binding interactions with surface proteins of bacteria and viruses associated with cell entry.

    Anti-ganglioside and anti-neurofascin autoantibodies have recently been associated (in case studies) with COVID-related GBS/GBS-like neuropathies.

    In the case of anti-ganglioside antibodies, this could be due to co-capture of the spike protein, which readily binds to gangliosides. Suggesting some risk (however small) of GBS, but also increased risk for those with pre-existing sensitivity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  20. Forestvon

    Forestvon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    update - been phoned today not by gp but NHS that they will come and give me Astra Zeneca early Jan as cant bring the Pfizer one out - scary to be one of first as not yet approved tho expected to be soon. Was put on spot but decided to agree tho do feel like guinea pig. Will update you!
     
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