Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

They don't make it easy do they.

I regularly watch, every Saturday, Clinical Update with Dr. Daniel Griffin on TWIV Microbe TV a podcast made by virologist Dr. Vincent Rancaniello (He has a website where Dave Tuller writes his posts).

They said recently that there won't be data on the protection from serious illness (defined as hospitalization and /or death) until the season plays out, between the various vaccines. They said that even though Novovax is based on a prior variant, less current than the ones by Moderna and Pfizer, they're all in the same family (clade) so they expect that in real life (clinically) there won't be a clinically relevant difference. Past comparisons measured RNA copy numbers between vaccines, which doesn't tell you much. Novavax and Moderna did the best with those (original 2021 versions).

Currently Novovax they say seems to have few side effects. That's my pick this year. I'll get my flu jab and my Novavax at the same time and plan to be flattened and miserable for a week. I have a minimal social life but if I get invited for the holidays...I might have to remove my mask to eat indoors!

Only serious vaccine side effects are investigated. (I had tingling and numbness on one side of my face with visual changes from my first Pfizer, it lasted 30 minutes and scared me and I reported it to VARS, our US agency for that.

A serious side effect is one that doesn't go away, or causes organ damage (myocarditis, stroke). The VARS uses the background level of diseases in the region and compares it to the incidence in the reported vaccine adverse events, I assume. It can be hard to establish cause and effect because life is random.

VARS did ask me whether what I experienced went away. they followed up.

The increased protection from covid vaccines lasts only 3 months. The antibodies generated by your body in response to the vaccine are largely gone after that. Your prior vaccination series (3 -4 shots) or some vaccines plus case(s) of covid induce memory T-cells which activate in response to the virus and give you at least 60% protection from serious illness (hospitalization and/or death).

Hope this helps.

 

Well you might feel generally awful.

 

Thanks, @Jonathan Edwards. I'm wondering what you think of what @shak8 summarises above from the TWiV podcast:

And also from another thread:

I'm hoping to have an informed conversation with my GP about the risks/benefits of ongoing Covid vaccination, given that I've had a couple of different types of neurological incidents following jabs that were scary but from which I recovered over the course of several months (I don't want to go into detail here). I don't know whether they were coincidental but I'm concerned.

I'm amazed that there's no big-picture, current summary of Covid vaccination issues for the layperson so that we can weigh things up. I had a quick squiz for books on Amazon and nothing I saw looked trustworthy, and I haven't found any useful websites.

Ed Yong made the point in an interview that journalists are great at providing little updates on breaking news but rubbish at giving the big, current picture. I'm certainly finding that.

 

Absolutely it does, thank you.

 

Global burden of vaccine-associated Guillain–Barré syndrome over 170 countries from 1967 and 2023, 2024

LINK

 

Our Covid and Flu vaccines are now available in my Province. The jabs are for over 65 and immunocompromised for now and will be available for everyone October 28.

So a friend was going for his shots yesterday (he's diabetic) and asked if I wanted to come along to get mine. I said yes because I wanted a ride to this particular pharmacy that accepts walk-ins. So I'm not 65 and have a medical condition but would rather not explain what it is, so I checked-off diabetes (which I'm not) on the form and got my shots- no question asked

Now I just have to remind myself that I got them.

 

I have read that flu vaccine for over 75s ( which I wish to take- have had flu vaccine every year for ever) is differently constituted from that given to under 75s. Can anyone confirm this? I have concerns that it may be an MRNA. Mr B had his this morning but no one at the doctor's surgery where it was given was able to advise on this.

 

I've got an appointment for the 8th of November to get my covid and flu shots.

Annoyingly I am not well enough to try and get a home visit for them, even though going to get them will likely flatten me for several days.

Oddly I still don't, as far as I know, fit in any of the official categories of people to get them.

The invitation text that I received just says 'increased risk of serious illness'. I have previously asked my GP, at the time, why I was in that category and she said she hadn't a clue, the NHS system had decided and hadn't bothered to notify her (my GP) why.

So it's apparently important that I get these shots, but not important enough to send me an email, or a letter to let me know (the sim with the number that they are using as about a decade old and not used for anything, it got put in my 'new' phone about 5-6 years ago as it had some numbers on it that at the time might be needed - and despite my best efforts I've already had 2 others sims from the same period deactivated because......well they can and they appear to like stealing my credit).

 

Having diabetes would put you in that category (for the covid booster) in the US (as would obesity, smoking and other stuff).

Influenza serious outcomes ditto, I suspect.

Maybe I'll schedule my two shots on Nov. 8th in solidarity (the double dose influenza vaccine for oldsters --several days of shit-time and a Novovax, mild sides,if available)

 

As far as I am aware they are different. A few years back when I asked about a flu shot during a covide booster visit I was told that they had none for under 65s in, only ones for over 65s.

Of course it could be that they reserve the ones for over 65s for over 65s and that they are the same thing, but it does seem more likely that they are different things.

 

There are different vaccine recommendations for the at-risk <60, 60-64 and 65+ age groups. JCVI advice for 2025-2026:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...tement-on-influenza-vaccines-for-2025-to-2026

 

@Wonko are you able to call them to explain your situation? Does this apply to you?

https://notts.icb.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/FAQs-Housebound-patients-2-1.pdf

What if I am housebound and I have not had my letter? If you have not received your letter you should call 0115 883 4640 to arrange an appointment.

I understand you received a letter but sometimes calling works better. I dunno. I tried all sorts of things to get my home visit for a couple of years. Apparently I have diabetes and fibromyalgia now- which I don't. The service no longer available here though.

 

I've only seen my new GP once, escorted by my sister, I've also attended hospital 3 times, also escorted by my sister as without her I wouldn't have been able to get there or navigate in the hospital. The GP, and the surgery, have been told that I am housebound, but ignored.

I have only received a letter about vaccinations during the pandemic, since then it's been texts only.

I do not use phones, and my GP surgery is also aware of this, btu keep sending out texts informing me of appointments only allowing modification by phone.

Most of these get cancelled by my sister as they also have to fit in with her schedule and for some reason it doesn't seem possible to rearrange an appointment these days - so I think it's getting on for a year since I saw a GP.

 

As others have said in the UK it is different flue vaccines for the over and under 65s. I was only aware of this because we tried to organise that my pa and I had the vaccine at the same time so that we both could get the jabs on one visit. This means we had to wait a number of weeks until there was a day when my GP surgery was running both clinics at the same time.

I seem to be going in for vaccines this year, so far having had shingles, pneumococcal and Covid shots this Autumn and am getting the flue jab in a couple of weeks. So far this time round I have not had any bad reactions, I was particular pleased not to suffer any negative effect of the Covid (Moderna, I think) this time. I am always wary of the flue jabs as twenty plus years ago they used to knock me out for some three weeks. I did stop having them when I was forced to stop work, and only started again when the pandemic began, not wanting to risk anything that might see me having to go to hospital. Fortunately so far I have not experienced any repeat of the previous negative reaction.

 

I think that here (in the US) the oldster flu vaccine is double-dose for our paltry immune response. I don't know the formulation this year, it always changes. And they add the (nasty) adjuvants (chemical addition) to boost your side effects (in reality boosts your immune system's response).

Big factor in flu vaccine efficacy is mismatch between circulating influenza virus and the formulation of the vaccine:

I don't know whether the formulation of recent years' vaccines give good coverage for the flu variants. That has been a big problem, as by the time the manufacturing process has finished (in eggs still?) the variants in circulation had changed.

The southern hemisphere variants get sampled and a panel of experts draws up a plan.

 

https://www.nfid.org/resource/influenza-vaccine-options-2023-2024-season/

What types of flu vaccines are available?
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends the use of licensed, age-appropriate flu vaccines. All flu vaccines available in the US for the 2023-2024 season are quadrivalent vaccines, which are designed to protect against 4 different flu viruses—2 influenza A viruses and 2 influenza B viruses. Options include inactivated influenza vaccines [IIV4], recombinant influenza vaccine [RIV4], and live attenuated influenza vaccine (LAIV4).

Different vaccines are licensed for different age groups, and some vaccines are not recommended for certain groups of people. Three flu vaccines are preferentially recommended for adults age 65 years and older:

• Quadrivalent high-dose inactivated flu vaccine
• Quadrivalent recombinant flu vaccine
• Quadrivalent adjuvanted inactivated flu vaccine

If none of these 3 preferentially recommended flu vaccines is available, adults age 65 years and older should get any other age-appropriate flu vaccine instead.

 

Thanks for the information everyone. So it is 65 not 75 where the vaccine type changes. That fits Mr B's experience today because it was a session for over 65s. He also had a Moderna covid jab.
So far no reaction to either.

edit: I would like a flu jab but have had many medical appointments recently and feel overloaded. I have another at the surgery next week. Maybe they will fit me in for flu too.

 

What is a sim?

 

I had the over-65 'flu jab for the first time last year. I asked the pharmacist about the difference, and he explained that as people age, vaccination doesn't always trigger such an effective immune response.

To counter this, they add an adjuvant that helps stimulate more of a response. That was the only difference in the formulation last year that he was aware of.

I felt tired and off-colour for a couple of days after last year's, but this year's had no noticeable effects at all.


ETA: Sorry, forgot to say that it's not an mRNA jab. It's the normal sort, with something added to annoy your immune cells a bit more.