Michael Sharpe skewered by @JohntheJack on Twitter

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by Indigophoton, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  2. Graham

    Graham Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    These assumptions were based on results of questionnaires given out at ME centres. They found that people who were members of self-help group showed less improvement than those who were not. The psychs who support CBT etc. assumed, with their usual persecution complex, that this was due to patients being warned off the therapies, and having nothing but contempt for psychiatric conditions.

    Of course, there are always other explanations, and a proper study would have considered them all. One obvious one is simply that all that was offered at these ME centres was a talking therapy, part of which was to help patients understand the condition, to accept the need for careful pacing, and to avoid boom and bust. If, in the long time leading up to the specialist appointment, patients joined support groups, they would have had access to all of this. By the time they got to see a specialist, they would already be adjusting to the condition.

    This presumption of persecution was repeated in Chalder's analysis of key factors in improvement in the PACE trial, where again, membership of support groups was assumed to have a negative effect.
     
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  3. Indigophoton

    Indigophoton Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does David know that?
     
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  4. Liv aka Mrs Sowester

    Liv aka Mrs Sowester Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Probably not as he's been blocked in twitter.....calling @dave30th....

    Now that is very poor form. Block someone on twitter and then make accusations against them they won't see first hand and may not see at all.
     
  6. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  7. Indigophoton

    Indigophoton Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, my thought exactly.

    He's repositioning his image ahead of the debate. The switch in approach is so abrupt, it's almost as if someone gave him some PR advice.
     
  8. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    being in a support group would make them less susceptible to being influenced to change their questionnaire responses - sounds about right to me
    I took my final questionnaire home and posted it in - they were expecting everyone to sit there fill them in and hand them back to the staff.
     
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  9. benji

    benji Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    BCD1F5BB-EA52-496A-87C1-60C59B48F844.png OMG
     
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  10. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    'who is making it prevail - no one I know'

    has he not met Trudy Chalder
     
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  12. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's the first I've heard that I invented the term. Frankly, I see no real difference between "unhelpful" or "dysfunctional" illness beliefs and false ones. Reading the manuals for CBT and GET and all the previous studies makes it very, very clear that the illness beliefs are presumed to be untrue--i.e. false. People are presumed by the investigators and by the model not to have the organic illness that they believe they have. Isn't that then a "false" belief? So if I did coin the phrase, I would have no problem defending it. Someone would have to search all my posts since October 2015 to document if it was in fact the first do use it. I haven't done that and don't plan to, but Professor Sharpe can if he chooses to.
     
  13. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    'you should go for a positive message' is obviously the mantra of today rather than yesterdays 'read the paper'
     
  14. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sharpe is making me feel bad for thinking Chalder was the weak link amongst the PACE PIs. I had wondered why she was the one who replaced White to testify at the Information Tribunal. Now I know.
     
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  15. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In 2005 Sharpe had this (slightly one-sided) exchange with a patient, and the patient spoke of 'false illness beliefs'. I'm sure I've seen may others use the term too.

    http://fumblings.com/weblog/archives/2005/11/a_response_to_m.html

    I don't think I've seen that PACE researchers use it themselves though (Sharpe certainly doesn't seem to think that they have), so I reckon it's best to try to avoid the term when criticising them.
     
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  16. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    According to Google, the earliest mention I've found so far of "false illness beliefs" is from November 2003 by a certain David Jameson (ahum!).
     
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  17. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This idea that membership of a support group was likely to be harmful was widely disseminated at an early stage. Today I came across this clearly unsourced, second hand statement by two of whom I had never heard.

    "Furthermore the patients' illness behaviour is likely to be perpetuated by adhering strictly to the advice given by the powerful self-help group the ME Society (sic) which advocates total rest."

    Psychiatric perspectives: an overview. TO Woods, DP Goldberg British Medical Bulletin 1991 pp908-918

    The rest of the article is down to the same standard.

    Edit typo
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  18. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Haha you couldn't make this up. Please share.
     
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  19. Karen Kirke

    Karen Kirke Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Regarding the phobia vs fear-avoidance discussion above (a few pages above now!), I was thinking about this 2005 study by Gallagher et al, where “et al” includes Weir (who does not favour GET/CBT) and White (who does) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15992572

    Basically they took 42 people with CFS (their term, Oxford criteria, 57% met Fukuda) who did not have a psychiatric co-morbidity and 42 sedentary controls and measured their heart rate, galvanic skin resistance and amount of activity undertaken as well as the usual questionnaires the day before, just before, during and after an exercise challenge. Long story short, there was no evidence of a phobia. Nor was there evidence of increased deconditioning in the patients, or significantly reduced activity.

    They explain why their results may differ from previous studies whose results had been interpreted as suggesting “kinesiophobia” as follows:

    In the final two paragraphs the shift from phobia to fear-avoidance happens. The second last paragraph contains the meat of how the findings were interpreted in terms of the CBT/GET/BPS model, here's the crux:

    And they conclude:

    The "cognitive-behaviour model of CFS" seems to have dusted itself off, switched "phobia" to "fear-avoidance beliefs" and simply carried on. With a little note to self to avoid objective measures in future.
     
  20. Robert 1973

    Robert 1973 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That’s one of the possibilities I was alluding to – but I didn’t want to make myself look like a prat if it was a ridiculous suggestion. @Lucibee, who is much more knowledgeable than me, seemed to think it was more innocent that I was implying. Any thoughts @Jonathan Edwards @dave30th @Carolyn Wilshire?
     
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