Tues 20 Feb | UK parliamentary debate: PACE trial and its effect on people with ME - Carol Monaghan, MP

Sasha

Sasha

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
We have a lot of threads about actions to take to support/promote this important event but no thread actually about the event itself.

Parliamentary business for Tuesday 20 February 2018

House of Commons

11am - 11.30am Westminster Hall debate
PACE trial and its effect on people with ME - Carol Monaghan

http://services.parliament.uk/calen...Commons/WestminsterHall/2018/2/20/events.html​

It looks as though you should be able to watch it live online here, or live on TV on Freeview channel 81, Freesat channel 201, Virgin channel 612, Tiscali channel 502, Sky channel 504 and online via BBC iPlayer.
 
I wonder if any MPs will speak in defence of PACE? Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them have been networked by Wessely over the years, and would like to support him, but also, I don't see much upside to them on publicly speaking in defence of PACE (unless they were stupid enough to be confident it was a good piece of research).
 
Esther12 said:
I wonder if any MPs will speak in defence of PACE? Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them have been networked by Wessely over the years, and would like to support him, but also, I don't see much upside to them on publicly speaking in defence of PACE (unless they were stupid enough to be confident it was a good piece of research).
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Well, just like the House of Lords debate some years ago, there may well be MP's who have been fed exactly what to say, but I hope not.

This is what happened in the Countess of Mar's PACE debate in the House of Lords some years ago. Peter White admitted he had fed Lords info.

So it wouldn't surprise me if MPs are told what to say in this debate.

Some MP's fed info may genuinely trust what they are told whilst others may not give a fig whether it is true or not.

But no MP (or Lord) with any brains or integrity should just believe what they are fed, doing so shows a definite naivety, especially in a controversial area like ME, and where patients safety is involved.
 
Esther12 said:
I wonder if any MPs will speak in defence of PACE? Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them have been networked by Wessely over the years, and would like to support him, but also, I don't see much upside to them on publicly speaking in defence of PACE (unless they were stupid enough to be confident it was a good piece of research).
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As far as I can see this debate is just a mechanism for flagging up a concern that the government is supposed to respond to. But PACE happened on Tony Blair's watch if I am not mistaken so the minister can simply say 'not our problem, lady'. There is no need to defend PACE from the governments perspective. I think it highly improbable that any other MPs will bother to attend this to defend PACE. The word will have got around that this is a muck patch and the best thing to do would be to ignore it and let it die like a damp squib. (To mix metaphors.) It will not die but there is no need to fan the flames for them.

I see the debate as a staking out exercise in a longer game and worthwhile as such. What happens on the day is probably of no great consequence but the belaying pin will have been hammered into El Capitan (to mix metaphors further) and that will help.
 
Daisymay said:
Well, just like the House of Lords debate some years ago, there may well be MP's who have been fed exactly what to say, but I hope not.

This is what happened in the Countess of Mar's PACE debate in the House of Lords some years ago. Peter White admitted he had fed Lords info.

So it wouldn't surprise me if MPs are told what to say in this debate.

Some MP's fed info may genuinely trust what they are told whilst others may not give a fig whether it is true or not.

But no MP (or Lord) with any brains or integrity should just believe what they are fed, doing so shows a definite naivety, especially in a controversial area like ME, and where patients safety is involved.
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Yes, but the context around this debate is now so different, with so many academics speaking out about PACE, and a growing awareness that there are indefensible problems with it. At the Lords debate it's easy to see how ignorant members could imaging that they were speaking up for science against the unreasoned prejudices of the masses. Even MPs ignorant of the details of the debate around PACE are now less likely to fall for that spin (I hope - I guess we'll see on Tuesday).
 
Esther12 said:
I wonder if any MPs will speak in defence of PACE? Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them have been networked by Wessely over the years, and would like to support him, but also, I don't see much upside to them on publicly speaking in defence of PACE (unless they were stupid enough to be confident it was a good piece of research).
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Here is a quote from another thread: (https://www.s4me.info/threads/call-...l-monaghan-february-20.2294/page-7#post-43797)

"Hang on - the smily (ugh) man speaking represents the HRA AND Sense about Science, and Carol Monaghan mentions a double role for someone authoring the PACE Trial AND being an advisor to the DWP!"

As we know, Sense about Science and the DWP were decidedly pro-PACE, as I expect the Science Media Centre are, being associated with Sense about Science.
 
Esther12 said:
Yes, but the context around this debate is now so different, with so many academics speaking out about PACE, and a growing awareness that there are indefensible problems with it. At the Lords debate it's easy to see how ignorant members could imaging that they were speaking up for science against the unreasoned prejudices of the masses. Even MPs ignorant of the details of the debate around PACE are now less likely to fall for that spin (I hope - I guess we'll see on Tuesday).
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I agree things are very different, however if MP's are ignorant (which nearly all of them are) they won't know it is spin.

But anyway from what JE has just said there isn't likely to be any debate.
 
I think I read Jeremy Hunt is supposed to be there. It will be interesting to see what he has to say. I had written to my MP recently about a few ME issues and she had forwarded them to Mr Hunt. He sidestepped the questions so I wrote again the other week, and my questions were sent to him again and my MP asked him to give more consideration to the answers.
 
Esther12 said:
I heard it would be a minister from the Dept of Health, but that it would probably be someone very junior (as they normally are for these debates). Did you see Hunt mentioned by name?
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It would certainly be very poor if no one from the department of health turned up! I'm sure they would like to snub it, but hopefully will want to know what goes on.
 
Esther12 said:
I wonder if any MPs will speak in defence of PACE? Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them have been networked by Wessely over the years, and would like to support him, but also, I don't see much upside to them on publicly speaking in defence of PACE (unless they were stupid enough to be confident it was a good piece of research).
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They may prefer to attend and see which way the wind might be blowing first. I think in these sort of cases such allegiances can be influenced by who might drop who in the sh*t.
 
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