Hypothalamic-Pituitary autoimmunity and related impairment of hormone secretions in chronic fatigue syndrome, 2021, De Bellis, Montoya et al

Agree that truth is a laudible goal but sometime folklore when unexamined begins to look like truth.

 

I was hooping that you could substantiate your robust denial!

I was taught years ago that population studies showed that in communities where women continue to do a lot of physical activity throughout life a Growth Hormone response to stimulus was maintained but in communities where women had become mostly sedentary the response was lost. So I am pretty sure that GH responses are different according to baseline activity levels. Whether the responses are just to exercise or also to glucagon I don't remember but it sounds to me that neither of us has reviewed the literature in detail.

We like to pick everything apart here because that is the best way to learn.

I have looked after people with pituitary failure and diagnosed growth hormone deficiency myself in one young woman. I didn't see anything there that made me think of ME. Generalised lassitude and maybe 'fatigue' yes but not in the sense that I hear from PWME.

 

My response was to your suggestion that this could be so easily dismissed. I've shared the current Dx criteria which these patients met. The claim that women from a physically active society retain more robust GH response (to what?) than those who are more sedentary makes for a nice anecdote and it may speak to something but it's not much to respond to if you're interested in understanding this study.

I mentioned that patients needed to lose 80% of their vasopressin producing neurons (something I had learned a while back) and then I went and found the source (and if that chapter wasn't enough, let me know).

I don't think it's too much to question where you came by your assertion about lower GH levels in those with lower activity levels.

Short of that, this is a waste of time and I suspect we'll know more in a few years.

Best of luck.

 

I just checked PubMed on papers relating Growth Hormone levels and responses to exercise. It lists 3,000 papers. Recent papers suggest that interactions are complex. I don't see this as anecdote.

I would have thought it was very relevant if we are interested in understanding this study.

 

Jaime Seltzer [ME Action], from memory, told me that she had some sympathy with critics who highlighted that activity levels might explain differences in healthy controls and people with ME/CFS (with disabling fatigue). So I wouldn't be surprised if Growth Hormone levels were lower in people with ME/CFS. A potential solution is to have controls with similar activity levels to the test (ME/CFS) group.

@CBS

 

I'm a bit puzzled by this discussion of growth hormone levels and physical activity. According to Wiki there are many reasons for growth hormone deficiency (GHD).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_deficiency

In research involving this would any researcher ever make sure that there was no other cause for the GHD or would they just ignore it and keep charging on looking at physical activity?

On the thyroid forum I read, women sometimes join who could be candidates for Sheehan's Syndrome (mentioned in the quote above) and have huge difficulties getting diagnosed. Often they get instant dismissal without testing because they've "been reading that rubbish on the internet".

 

Wow, 3000 papers. Sure sounds like a lot.
I don’t know. That’s definitely more than I found via my pubmed search.

 

I have no thoughts on the direct discussion here, but if the low levels of activity we are forced into is causing some of our symptoms then surely that is a path worth looking into.

Diabetes can cause kidney disease but that is not taken as a reason for dismissing tests which show abnormal kidney function, rather the reverse.

it is only a problem if you implicitly believe that the lack of activity is a choice of lifestyle.

 

Maybe it’s just me (just kidding, it clearly is just me) but I find your focus on "exercise” for your pubmed search curious. Care to expound upon your choice?