The micro-clot finding in Long Covid — implications for the possible aetiology of ME/CFS

Is it not the perpetuation of the symptoms which is characteric of ME?

 

This seems to be a horrible logical, linguistic and causal tangle.

 

I'm glad she's being upfront about this. In the past, she's made statements that clots might be the cause, and so did many of her followers. Her current position is better justified by the data. While less impressive, these results are still beneficial because they show it's not in our heads.

 

interview now also available on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkV7h4xDDo

 

Professor Kell when asked what the micro clots look like under a microscope, "the elements of the blood clots are fibers which look in a electro microscope look like a plate of spaghetti, except that in the presence of some of these other things such as of bacteria cell walls component, the clotting goes to a completely different type of structure . . " and then goes to describe the structure of parboiled spaghett when not cooked properly sticks together and makes a holy mess.

 

https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/news-an...ood-clotting-imbalance-persists-in-long-covid

The team of researchers, led by Professor James O'Donnell at the RCSI School of Pharmacy and Biomolecular Sciences with Dr Helen Fogarty as Clinical Fellow, analysed blood from 50 patients with Long COVID syndrome up to 12 weeks post infection with the COVID-19 virus. They compared the samples to 'controls', blood from healthy people who did not have Long COVID syndrome.

The study found that the blood of patients with Long COVID syndrome had higher levels of a blood-clotting booster called von Willebrand Factor (VWF), and lower levels of a protein that normally breaks down VWF, called ADAMTS13. Their analysis also suggests that blood vessels were still being damaged long after the initial infection, and that specific cells of the immune system were at abnormal levels in patients with Long COVID.

 

Study originally mentioned on this thread
https://www.s4me.info/threads/susta...-immune-dysfunction-2022-fogarty-et-al.28761/

 

Is this one a good study?

 

Had to say without looking at the paywalled paper in detail. The measurements are probably valid but their significance is unclear. Within 12 weeks of Covid it may not be that surprising that clotting factors are shifted - that need not mean that any further clotting is occurring. The T cell differences are very non-specific and unlikely to mean much in relation to clotting.

 

Article in Nature
Could tiny blood clots cause long COVID’s puzzling symptoms?

full article
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02286-7

 

I'm a bit baffled why there hasn't been a push elsewhere (particularly USA) to run GWAS studies on long covid, and indeed ME/CFS. Just strikes me that latching onto this or that theory --- it's the micro-clots or whatever --- leads to research which may have nothing to do with the disease i.e. long covid (or indeed ME/CFS).

 

Prof Kell on Twitter, "To those doing well on nattokinase and/or serrapeptase and/or lumbricase pls can you tell #TeamClots which BRAND and frequencies you use. Just poss that some non-responders are using lousy brands. Can then at least then use those known to work."

 

Shouldn't he be asking or advising not take these supplements unless they've had blood work done to determine if they actually need this instead of providing info to 'teamclots"?

Have LC pts been tested first to see if they actually need this?

They are not innocent supplements. I had quite a scare taking them 20 years ago.

 

Natto also lowers BP.

 

People doing drug trials do not normally use Twitter for quality control.
This seems pretty peculiar.

 

Does anyone else just eat natto anyway? I've been eating some usually once a week or so for quite some years. I'm sure that's not the dosage in whatever these supplements are, but... why don't they study effects of natto eating for comparison? Sign me up!

I love natto but these supplements and potions? Hm.

 

Well.....my response was 'WTF is natto' - I'm 56 (I think) and I've never heard of it.

I did gather that at least one person considers it might be a type of food

It turns out that the reason I've never heard of it, when I have heard of many, many, types of food, is because I'm from the NE of England, which suggests that I'm probably not Japanese, where natto seems to be from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nattō

 

I've looked around town for natto to eat as a food but haven't been able to find any. I take vitamin K2 ( menaquinone-7 (MK-7)) supplements made from natto. It's a small dosage. Studies show that it's beneficial for bone health.