The micro-clot finding in Long Covid — implications for the possible aetiology of ME/CFS

Discussion in 'Blood (e.g. coagulation, cell stiffness)' started by SNT Gatchaman, Nov 2, 2021.

  1. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,559
    Going off topic a little.

    How the blood is stored can also present different outcomes.

    Most researchers observed a significant deterioration in cell deformability after 2 to 3 weeks of storage (see Table 1). At the same time, for several units, the stability of deformability was observed throughout storage (Barshtein et al., 2020b; Islamzada et al., 2020). There was also significant variability in the deformability of the red cells, both between different donors and between PRBC units. In addition, it was found that the preparation of the PRBC unit causes an alteration in the deformability of cells (Barshtein et al., 2020a).

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2021.722896/full
     
    merylg, Lilas, sebaaa and 6 others like this.
  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,559
  3. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,559
  4. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,559
    What were the eligibility criteria that determined these treatments for M.E?
     
    Arnie Pye and Wonko like this.
  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
    Being able to pay?
    And presumably testing their blood for microclots.
     
    alktipping, Hutan, Mij and 1 other person like this.
  6. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,559
    "full container of clots"? Wouldn't that have killed someone if they had that many clots?

    Are they really clots or something else?
     
    TigerLilea, Lilas and Arnie Pye like this.
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,175
    Location:
    London, UK
    It doesn't make a lot of sense and I think it is a pity this sort of stuff is going around social media.
    Fibrinogen is the normal soluble protein that we all need to be healthy. Clots are the fibrin cleavage product. An apheresis machine designed to remove clots might well give you a pot of fibrin but goodness knows whether there was anything wrong beforehand. The clots are supposed to be microscopic anyway.
     
  8. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    23,032
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    RedFox, Mij, MSEsperanza and 6 others like this.
  9. LarsSG

    LarsSG Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    370
    MEMarge, Ariel, Binkie4 and 4 others like this.
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
    To clarify, this will be on the BBC Radio 4 program Inside Science. It will be available on BBC Sounds after the program.
     
  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,175
    Location:
    London, UK
    A short piece with Kell and Pretorius snips, also someone introducing them who might have been Amy Proal or maybe not. Nothing very new or detailed. Pretorius said she did not think microclots caused symptoms. I think Kell said he thought they did. If they have found them in diabetes and rheumatoid the story is a bit confusing if so.
     
    FMMM1, hinterland, sebaaa and 10 others like this.
  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
    I think Pretorius said the microclots are a downstream effect of whatever is in the blood causing the disease, so in Long Covid it's the spike protein, in ME/CFS and other diseases the microclots are found in, it will be something else.

    They explained that the microclots are different from the sort of clots that cuase DVT etc, they are much smaller, and can reduce blood flow in tissues in the organs affected. Kell suggested this could explain the symptoms of ME/CFS like brain fog and muscle fatigue.

    Even if this doesn't turn out to be the main cause of symptoms, it was very nice to hear Pretorius saying how badly pwME have been treated and that it's not psychosomatic.
     
    Solstice, Keela Too, sebaaa and 23 others like this.
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
  14. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
  15. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
  16. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,761
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
  17. RedFox

    RedFox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,293
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Transcription of Resia Pretorius's soundbite that Adam posted, for those of you who find reading easier:
    (She's talking about ME/CFS)
     
    Solstice, Keela Too, Binkie4 and 10 others like this.
  18. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,500
    does anyone know how (techinically speaking), i might copy/save that clip that @Adam pwme shared on twitter above, so that i can post it on facebook, please. Goodness there is someone i can tag that i need to hear that statement!
     
    Solstice, Binkie4, Louie41 and 3 others like this.
  19. Adam pwme

    Adam pwme Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    679

    I've uploaded it here for you

    https://gofile.io/d/zqE84C
     
    Solstice, Binkie4, Hutan and 6 others like this.
  20. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,500
    gosh Adam thats massively helpful, thank you so much! :):hug:
     
    Binkie4, Hutan, Adam pwme and 2 others like this.

Share This Page