Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

I have not yet been vaccinated, but plan to. One of my doctors, who I've seen for many years, told me that with my history of immune problems, I should try to get the Johnson and Johnson, rather than the Pfizer or Moderna. Unfortunately, I was so brain fogged when he told me that I don't remember the rationale for his recommendation.

 

I can't guess the reason. The adenovirus based vaccines aren't significantly less 'reactogenic' than the mRNA vaccines.

 

It’s thought possible that some sensitive people may be reacting to additives in the lipid layer encapsulating mRNA, specifically polyethylene glycol (PEG) is suspected.

 

I'm more concerned about long COVID - is there any evidence yet that this is more/less common among vaccinated people or people with ME/CFS?

 

Is there any data on the extent to which the vaccines prevent or reduce the severity of new cases of Long Covid? (That is, I'm not asking about their effects on existing Long Covid).

 

That's why mine told me. My immunologist said even though my reaction was mild with PEG I should still not take a vaccine with it. She told me to take the J&J one.

I'm bummed. Can't find it and even though reading about the efficacy numbers and why for each of the vaccines, I still wish the J&J numbers were higher.

Brain is foggy so I may not be clearly enough understanding these numbers with the charts and explanations esp when they throw in scientific and statistic terms that I don't understand or they are worded confusingly for me.

I might try to hold out for the Novavax yet not sure cause concerned about aspects of it and cause my living environment and living downtown is so dangerous really want to get vaccinated sooner than later yet also want to be the most protected from the vaccine.

Edit: efficiency changed, meant to write efficacy

 

No idea. I think one of the problems would be getting consistent diagnosis re Long covid - possibly you could use actimetry/electronic activity monitoring (for the people who are similar to ME) - even there you don't have baseline (before).

I heard that one of the research areas in post corona virus illness is microclots - but that's not related to ME

I think @Jonathan Edwards suggested that a lot of post corona virus illness is probably going to be unrelated to ME - circulatory problems or whatever.

 

There was a guy (from UK?) speaking on Radio 4 last week [maybe Inside Health] and he was suggesting that some people with Long covid reported improvement at 1st vaccination - but it wasn't consistent.

@Jonathan Edwards highlighted the high placebo effect, in the early Rituximab trial in ME; so that may suggest a need to be cautious in interpreting anecdotal reports re people, with Long covid, improving post vaccination.

 

Thanks - but I'm specifically interested on whether the vaccine is preventing cases of Long Covid from developing in the first place, as opposed to affecting existing cases.

 

AstraZenica is 10% effective, against the South African variant, i.e. where use use symptoms (not hospitalisations) as your measure of efficacy. So you're getting infected - whether you get Long covid is another question.

Same goes for other vaccines - you may well be getting infected but be asymptomatic.

I think you'd need a biomarker [for Long covid] to answer your question but there are none - as in ME. Possibly actimietry - but you don't have baseline (pre-infection with corona virus).

So maybe your question cannot be answered with confidence.

 

But that is my question! Do the vaccines protect against getting Long Covid.

I don't think so. We don't have one for ME/CFS and yet we have a symptom-based diagnosis.

 

Check out @Jonathan Edwards post re the fact that the initial trials on rituximab suggested that rituximab would work in ME but the phase 3 trial proved it didn't, suggesting a significant placebo effect - so how could you correct for that?

It appears that you'd need the incidence for those who had been vaccinated, who then became infected with coronavirus (biomarker i.e. separating the vaccine antibodies from the subsequent natural infection?), who then developed long covid [reliable diagnosis?] and a group who hadn't been vaccinated who developed long covid [reliable diagnosis?].

Seems to be a lot you can't quantify with sufficient accuracy - but that doesn't seem to stop people doing something fancy with the numbers - regardless of the availability of reliable data.

 

I would suggest it's too early to say.

The vaccines have been prioritised based on those most likely to become severely ill, be hospitalised and possibly die. Currently, in my area they are vaccinating the 50+ age group and those with higher risk factors.

As far as we know long covid tends to affect those who wouldn't necessarily be prioritised for vaccination - a sweeping generalisation, but as far as we know.

So we have yet to vaccinate the population who are most at risk of contracting long covid.

Also given the vaccines don't stop you getting sick but just reduce the likelihood of hospitalization & death, is there a possibility that they increase the risk of long covid?

It is certainly something that I hope they try to track as it could provide some interesting information.

 

No, just like a flu-shot does not prevent you from contracting the flu. If you are vaccinated and contract COVID, you will not become very ill or die from COVID. That is my understanding from what infectious disease doctors and epidemiologists are saying.

 

I'd argue, yes, the question is how well?

The AZ vaccine was at least in the 50% range for efficacy against asymptomatic + symptomatic infection (at least against the UK/ancestral variants). The Pfizer vaccine was in the 80% range, though the data is not as robust.

I's also argue that a true asymptomatic infection in a vaccinated individual is unlikely to be sufficient to induce LongCovid.

 

Do we have a comparison anywhere for efficacy of AZ cmopared to moderna? - moderna reported to be due to be rolled out on uk later in april.

 

Both have had USA trials, so data from these may offer some means of comparison?

 

Vaccine efficacy in aged care in the UK

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.26.21254391v1.full.pdf

Around 62% efficacy against symptomatic infection at 35-48 days, after one dose of either AZ (67% of the vaccinated cohort received this) or Pfizer (33% received this). (median age 86 years)

Data on mortality/hospitalisation was not recorded.

 

Thanks, what about Moderna though? or should it be assumed that as it works same way (as i understand it) as pfizer, the efficacy should be similar?

Just wondering what people are saying about the moderna, as not heard much about it, wondering what Hilda thinks, & thare was that brilliant video you posted (i think it was you @Snow Leopard ?) by that australian scientist, which i cant find now - it was about achieveing herd immunity with vaccines.

Sorry if i not makin much sense i pretty foogy today

Just wonderin if the moderna jabs arriving is good news or if it makes not much difference.

 

I'd expect the effect to be similar.

I can't remember the link to the video, unfortunately.