Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

I was turned down for Novavax. In the U.S. it is not yet approved as a booster. I had thought since my original J&J was way back in April of last year that this stipulation would not apply.

A couple of weeks after a minor procedure at my ENT's office next week, I'll get the J&J again. Disappointed about the Novavax, though.
 
Trish said:
I don't understand your logic, @Dakota15. There is plenty of evidence worldwide that Covid-19 vaccinations have greatly reduced the rate of death and serious illness from Covid-19.

Of course those suffering symptoms following vaccination should be given appropriate medical support, but the numbers in that situation are far outweighed by lives saved by the vaccines.
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But those who are affected including the severely affected have not been recognised or supported. Are you saying that you are willing to sacrifice the few to protect the many?


edit: Sorry but I am away on holiday with family arriving imminently so will be unable to pursue further discussion if it takes place.
 
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Binkie4 said:
But those who are affected including the severely affected have not been recognised or supported. Are you saying that you are willing to sacrifice the few to protect the many?
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That's a big question to ask, Binkie. If one were to support not vaccinating anyone on the grounds that a small minority have serious side effects, the reverse question would have to be asked. Are you wiling to sacrifice the many to protect the few?

No of course I don't think it's right that people who a have been severely affected by vaccines have not been recognised or supported. I have huge sympathy for those who are in that awful situation and am appalled when I hear of lack of support. I also have huge sympathy for those who have been equally badly affected by catching Covid without protection from vaccines, and for those who are seriously ill with long covid, with or without having been vaccinated, and for the families of those who have died from Covid19.

In a perfect world we would have vaccines that and 100% effective and 0% side effects. In the imperfect world we actually live in, I support the strategy that has the best chance of preventing the most deaths and serious illness, alongside high quality care for those badly affected both by the rare side effects of vaccines and by Covid itself.
 
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Trish said:
In the imperfect world we actually live in, I support the strategy that has the best chance of preventing the most deaths and serious illness, alongside high quality care for those badly affected both by the rare side effects of vaccines and by Covid itself.
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I have to admit that I don't fully support the strategy as long as part of it includes deliberately silencing facts about vaccine injuries and publicly and repeatedly minimizing/brushing off those affected (in the media, info published by the government, in the public conversation, and so on) because the people who created and are maintaining the strategy are afraid that "the masses" won't get vaccinated if these things are recognised and talked about openly.

I believe everyone deserves the facts, in order to make an informed decision. It's about consent.

To clarify, I believe it is wrong to treat the public as if we can't handle the facts/truth, can't be trusted with information and data.

As far as I can tell, the data so far clearly shows that the risk is very very small, but it's not completely non-existent. I seriously doubt the data would stop "the masses" from getting vaccinated. I honestly don't see the problem, why not just be open about it in public communication etc? I don't see anything "scary" about this data?

It's when they start withholding and deliberately trying to silence/downplay facts that are essential for informed consent, that the red flags start popping up for me. Sharing this data shouldn't be a big deal at all.

If history teaches us anything, it's that as long as part of the strategy is to pretend that there's no problem and no risk as all, those affected won't be recognised nor supported.
 
I am concerned about the lack of recognition of serious effects on a significant number of people who took the vaccine. It felt as if there was a deliberate policy of refusing to admit that a negative reaction was a result of the vaccine, and people were strongly encouraged to continue with the vaccination programme.
I speak from personal experience: I took 3 vaccines and two out of three caused me significant problems.

I found it very difficult to report the problem via the yellow card system although after great efforts I succeeded in getting a code number. There has been no follow up.

This does not seem to be a fair way to establish the risks and benefits of the vaccine programme, so as to enable people's consent to be fully informed. Nor do we know that those who have been severely impacted have been / will be fully cared for, treated and compensated if necessary.
 
Dakota15 said:
This vaccine situation has been a disaster all the way around. So many adverse reactions with little help to patients. So much trust dissipated with medical system in general.
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There are always going to be adverse reactions to vaccines no matter which vaccine it is. It has always been that way. The difference this time is that with covid, everyone around the world is being vaccinated at the same time so it is much more noticeable the number of us getting adverse reactions all within the same time frame. However, I'm betting that the total number of us is probably very low percentage wise and probably no different than with any other vaccine.

I'm one of those people who has been fighting with adverse reactions for the past 16 months, however, I don't consider the vaccines a disaster. They have saved millions of lives and kept people off of ventilators in the ICU. It's true that for most of us with adverse reactions the medical system has been a complete failure and we are on our own to figure this out. Fortunately it seems a good percentage of us are eventually recovering even if it takes a year or more.
 
Binkie4 said:
But those who are affected including the severely affected have not been recognised or supported. Are you saying that you are willing to sacrifice the few to protect the many?
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It's true that those of us with long term adverse reactions to the covid vaccine aren't being recognized or supported for the most part, however, adverse reactions happen with all vaccines. They can't stop vaccinating all people because a very small percentage of us will possibly have these reactions.
 
Hah! I've managed to get past the paywall on that one. Result!

I also noticed that if you really want to you can sign up to a "We’ll send you a myFT Daily Digest email rounding up the latest Covid-19 vaccines news every morning."
 
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BBC: UK approves Moderna's Omicron Covid booster'
The UK has become the first country to approve a dual vaccine which tackles both the original Covid virus and the newer Omicron variant.

The upgraded vaccine should be available as an autumn booster and give better protection against variants.

Moderna said it could supply 29 million doses this year, but exactly who will get them has yet to be announced.

All over-50s and people in high-risk groups will be offered some form of booster from next month.

The original vaccines used in the pandemic were designed to train the body to fight the first form of the virus that emerged in Wuhan, in China, at the end of 2019.

The Covid virus has since mutated substantially, with a stream of new variants emerging that can dodge some of our immune defences. They have caused large surges in cases around the world.

'Sharpened tool'
Moderna's vaccine targets both the original strain and the first Omicron variant (BA.1), which emerged last winter. It is known as a bivalent vaccine as it takes aim at two forms of Covid.

The UK's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency has considered the evidence and given the vaccine approval for use in adults.

Dr June Raine, the regulator's chief executive, said: "The first generation of Covid-19 vaccines being used in the UK continue to provide important protection against the disease and save lives.

"What this bivalent vaccine gives us is a sharpened tool in our armoury to help protect us against this disease as the virus continues to evolve."

The results of experiments on 437 people showed the updated vaccine was safe and gave better immune protection against newer variants.

Levels of antibodies that were able to stick to and disable Omicron (BA.1) were eight times higher with the new vaccine than Moderna's old one.

Tests against more recent Omicron variants (BA.4 and BA.5), which are causing the UK's current wave, also showed higher levels of protection with the updated vaccine.

However, while there is better protection against known variants, it is uncertain what we will be facing in the coming months and exactly how well the updated vaccine will perform.

Stéphane Bancel, the chief executive officer of Moderna, said he was "delighted" the vaccine had been approved.

He said: "This represents the first authorization of an Omicron-containing bivalent vaccine, this bivalent vaccine has an important role to play in protecting people in the UK from Covid-19 as we enter the winter months."

In the UK, the following people will be offered some form of booster:

  • health and social care staff
  • everyone aged 50 and over
  • carers who are over the age of 16
  • people over five whose health puts them at greater risk, this includes pregnant women
  • people over five who share a house with somebody with a weakened immune system
Originally those aged 50-65 were not going to be jabbed. However, the immunisation campaign has been expanded because of the fast spread of variants, uncertainty about how the virus will mutate and the expectation that we will be more social this winter than in previous years - giving the virus more chance to spread.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62548336
 
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Constant messaging for the last year+: the pandemic is over, everything is back to normal, give the stinkeye to anyone still in need of protection.

Oh, yeah, people will definitely take their boosters now. Brilliant messaging, geniuses. Lower intakes of other vaccines has already started, and because the messaging has been so awful from medical authorities, the pandemic deniers are actually capitalizing on it and adding it to their nonsense about immunity debt and other nonsense about how the focus on one vaccine is, somehow, responsible for that.

The playbook of pandemics has been set alight, not a single principle has actually been followed, it's all lip service. But, sure, people will take their boosters for a virus that's "just a cold" now that the pandemic is over. Pffft.

Public health has been made ineffective for years because of the obsessive focus with managing perceptions and behaviors, instead of telling the plain truth. And right alongside concurrent pandemics, because it would only be half the disaster it is if the spread of not just one but two viruses had not been enabled by disastrous mishandling.
 
That is not enough people to approve for a population release. I know full well they didn't try it on severe long haulers or ME/CFS sufferers or anyone that is already ill. A vaccine for a disease that no longer circulates that has been gone for 7 months and we are now 3 variants down the line and maybe a fourth before we get it! I am not sure I am going to take PEM to get this like I did all the other shots, I am not seeing the point.
 
I think it's a good idea. Better a vaccine against more recent versions of the virus than one that was much more different to current variants from 2 years ago. It's like they do with flu vaccine - use the most recent variants they can.

I do understand the dilemma for people who have reacted badly to previous versions, and each person will need to make their own decision on the balance of risk for them.
 
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