Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

Trish said:
I have read that brief debate. It is basically just a short speech from MP, Andrew Bridgen, who was thrown out of his political party for spreading misinformation about the pandemic and vaccines. He spouts a lot of nonsense he has presumably believed from conspiracy websites, and is disagreed with by a government minister. End of debate. I doubt there were much more than the 3 people who spoke present.

We can by all means discuss real data, but there's no point giving a voice to people who have fallen down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Why would we want to contaminate discussion of real data about the relatively rare instances of people suffering severe symptoms after their vaccinations with this nonsense?

Edit: To clarify, this is my personal view, not a moderation team ruling.
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I do not want to comment on anyone's sanity but there is mention about financial ties to Bill Gates which IMO sounds like a conspiracy theory..... I didn't see that.

The vaccine fund discussion is of interest though because I have heard some people attribute ME-like illnesses as a result of taking a vaccine. So perhaps this is what people also mean when they say vaccine triggered Long Covid.

EDIT: I'm removing the link from my post.
 
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Moderator note
Please respect individuals' and their families' privacy by not speculating about the details of their health including diagnosis, treatment, symptoms, prognosis etc, or about other personal information.
 
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Trish said:
If someone wants to say why they think we should share, give credence to and discuss information not backed up by evidence from reputable sources, and/or personal experience of members, and instead spend time discussing unevidenced claims derived from conspiracists, please do share your point of view.
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Aren't many of us forum members in some way conspiracists? And EBM hasn't always been good to us, or reliable. I think that's where the merits of discussion come in.
 
duncan said:
Aren't many of us forum members in some way conspiracists? And EBM hasn't always been good to us, or reliable. I think that's where the merits of discussion come in.
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Absolutely not. We base our comments on evidence. There's plenty of evidence in the public domain for all to see of the actions, writings and speeches of Sharpe, Wessely et al for us to base our comments on. We don't need to invent conspiracies.
 
Trish said:
We don't need to invent conspiracies.
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Who said anything about inventing anything?

Trish said:
Absolutely not. We base our comments on evidence. There's plenty of evidence in the public domain for all to see of the actions, writings and speeches of Sharpe, Wessely et al for us to base our comments on.
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I fail to see how "conspiracy" hasn't devolved into a sad and twisted cliche any more than EBM.

Again, I'd let the discussions carry themselves where they will. It's a forum. Once we pre-emptively begin deciding what is truth or not, I fear it becomes a little less. You talk about evidence, but I think much of what is bantered around as evidence sometimes is only someones perspective or position - and this includes far too many studies - bolstered with rhetoric.

We all thrive on evidence and facts. That's why we're here. But discussion helps sift through the nonsense, and by nonsense, you can pick your poison.
 
Additive effects of booster mRNA vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 Omicron infection on T cell immunity across immunocompromised states

Abstract
Suboptimal immunity to SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination has frequently been observed in individuals with various immunodeficiencies. Given the increased antibody evasion properties of emerging SARS-CoV-2 subvariants, it is necessary to assess whether other components of adaptive immunity generate resilient and protective responses against infection. We assessed T cell responses in 279 individuals, covering five different immunodeficiencies and healthy controls, before and after booster mRNA vaccination, as well as after Omicron infection in a subset of patients.

We observed robust and persistent Omicron-reactive T cell responses that increased markedly upon booster vaccination and correlated directly with antibody titers across all patient groups. Poor vaccination responsiveness in immunocompromised or elderly individuals was effectively counteracted by the administration of additional vaccine doses. Functionally, Omicron-reactive T cell responses exhibited a pronounced cytotoxic profile and signs of longevity, characterized by CD45RA+ effector memory subpopulations with stem cell–like properties and increased proliferative capacity.

Regardless of underlying immunodeficiency, booster-vaccinated and Omicron-infected individuals appeared protected against severe disease and exhibited enhanced and diversified T cell responses against conserved and Omicron-specific epitopes.

Our findings indicate that T cells retain the ability to generate highly functional responses against newly emerging variants, even after repeated antigen exposure and a robust immunological imprint from ancestral SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.adg9452
 
Andy said:
"Covid vaccines will not be offered routinely to healthy under-65s this winter, following advice from UK immunisation experts.

Last autumn, all over-50s were invited for a booster jab to protect them during the winter months.

But only the over-65s should get the option this year, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66319065
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I'm under 60, have no known health conditions and got a booster appointment notification this week.
My OH , with health conditions didn't . Very weird .
 
Amw66 said:
I'm under 60, have no known health conditions and got a booster appointment notification this week.
My OH , with health conditions didn't . Very weird .
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It could be a mistake. I had a phone call a few weeks ago telling me I would be visited the next day for a covid booster. I asked if my daughter was on their list too. They asked her age. The response was that they were only doing the spring vaccinations for over 75's so she didn't qualify. I said, but I'm 73, not over 75. She went away to check and came back to say it was a mistake and I wouldn't be getting it after all.

If your notification is for the autumn booster, it could be because you're a carer. Your GP may have registered you as one without mentioning it. If that's the case, your caree will probably get a notification in a different batch.
 
Trish said:
The response was that they were only doing the spring vaccinations for over 75's so she didn't qualify. I said, but I'm 73, not over 75. She went away to check and came back to say it was a mistake and I wouldn't be getting it after all.

If your notification is for the autumn booster, it could be because you're a carer.
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Or because your GP has logged you as at risk. I wasn't considered at risk for most of the pandemic, but I got the booster in May for that reason, and have been offered ongoing access to LFTs and antivirals if I test positive. I'm in my 60s.

I think I'm on the list because I take an antirheumatic medication that can alter white blood cell levels. It does depress my neutrophil count, but the haematologist says I've never tested low enough for there to be any concerns and they'd immediately take me off it if I did. So who knows what the logic is behind the 'at risk' flag. :rolleyes:
 
Trish said:
It could be a mistake. I had a phone call a few weeks ago telling me I would be visited the next day for a covid booster. I asked if my daughter was on their list too. They asked her age. The response was that they were only doing the spring vaccinations for over 75's so she didn't qualify. I said, but I'm 73, not over 75. She went away to check and came back to say it was a mistake and I wouldn't be getting it after all.

If your notification is for the autumn booster, it could be because you're a carer. Your GP may have registered you as one without mentioning it. If that's the case, your caree will probably get a notification in a different batch.
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Thanks Trish
 
Diabetes following SARS-CoV-2 infection: Incidence, persistence, and implications of COVID-19 vaccination. A cohort study of fifteen million people. (2023, Preprint: MedRxiv)

Elevation in T2DM incidence after COVID-19 was markedly attenuated in vaccinated compared with unvaccinated people (1.4-fold versus 4.8-fold during weeks 1-4 after COVID-19 diagnosis).
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The hazard ratio for incident T2DM between 5-28 weeks in the vaccinated cohort (1.17) was lower than that for the pre-vaccination cohort (1.30) and almost identical to the hazard ratio of 1.16 observed for metabolic outcomes in a US cohort at 6 months.
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Elevated T2DM incidence after COVID-19 is greater, and persists longer, in hospitalised than non-hospitalised people. It is markedly less apparent post-vaccination.
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Herpes zoster mRNA vaccine induces superior vaccine immunity over licensed vaccine in mice and rhesus macaques

Abstract
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Herpes zoster remains an important global health issue and mainly occurs in aged and immunocompromised individuals with an early exposure history to Varicella Zoster Virus (VZV). Although the licensed vaccine Shingrix has a remarkably high efficacy, undesired reactogenicity and increasing global demand causing vaccine shortage urged the development of improved or novel VZV vaccines.

In this study, we developed a novel VZV mRNA vaccine candidate (named as ZOSAL) containing sequence-optimized mRNAs encoding full-length glycoprotein E encapsulated in an ionizable lipid nanoparticle. In mice and rhesus macaques, ZOSAL demonstrated superior immunogenicity and safety in multiple aspects over Shingrix, especially in the induction of strong T cell immunity. Transcriptomic analysis revealed that both ZOSAL and Shingrix could robustly activate innate immune compartments, especially Type-I IFN signaling and antigen processing/presentation. Multivariate correlation analysis further identified several early factors of innate compartments that can predict the magnitude of T cell responses, which further increased our understanding of the mode of action of two different VZV vaccine modalities.

Collectively, our data demonstrated the superiority of VZV mRNA vaccine over licensed subunit vaccine. The mRNA platform therefore holds prospects for further investigations in next-generation VZV vaccine development.
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https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.08.16.553640v1
 
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Andy said:
"Covid vaccines will not be offered routinely to healthy under-65s this winter, following advice from UK immunisation experts.

Last autumn, all over-50s were invited for a booster jab to protect them during the winter months.

But only the over-65s should get the option this year, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66319065
Click to expand...
Gotta love how the whole messaging over the last year has been that it's now completely safe, "back to normal", because everyone is vaccinated and everyone can get treated if they get severely ill. It's the same message everywhere I see. Well, in rich countries anyway. The rest of the world mostly has nothing.

Now at best 10% have a recent vaccination, it won't even be offered to most people when it's out, and treatments are very restricted. Only severe illness is ever mentioned, absolutely nothing about Long Covid, it's completely covered up. And of course to most people, severe illness that gets you to a hospital is very disruptive.

It's truly managed from a PR perspective and nothing else. It's vaporware healthcare. Vaporcare, I guess.
 
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In Britain, there's been some talk in the press about Covid jabs possibly being available for sale next year. At the moment they're only provided free by the NHS, but of course only to increasingly restricted groups.

It would be good if it could be offered on the 'flu model. Here, if you don't qualify for the annual NHS 'flu programme, large supermarkets offer jabs for £12 and neighbourhood pharmacies for about £15. I have doubts the Covid vaccine would be anything like as cheap or accessible, though. If it still needs specialised storage or the wholesale cost is relatively high, supermarkets are unlikely to offer it because there'd be questions over the level of demand. It'll more likely be shiny private clinics charging £150 or £200 a go.
 
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